Sounds an awful lot like what I perceived from the media of the Islamic state. I think it's a kind of mentality that, though brave, needs to be stamped out thoroughly.
Sayings of Spartan women
81–90 of 224 posts
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#82Myke Cole has written a new book on Spartan society and military, The Bronze Lie:
https://www.amazon.com/Bronze-Lie-Shattering-Spartan-Suprema...
His previous work on the Roman legion vs the Greek phalanx was very interesting and well-researched.
https://www.amazon.com/Legion-versus-Phalanx-Struggle-Suprem...
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#83On the topic of Spartan societey in general, a really good read is https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/ by Dr. Bret Deveraux. Long read but well worth it for interested people.
That is a very biased article that is playing up all the aspects of Spartan society that modern audiences would find repulsive for internet likes. At the end of the day it is not unlike the film it criticises (300) except it's going all the way to the other end and painting a portrait of a grim, evil empire. It is good to keep in mind that pretty much all ancient societies had norms and customs that we find repulsive…
Yes, the ancients were very different from us. But Sparta was special even to contemporaries. And it was special ways that are especially appalling to modern sensibilities. It’s dishonest to ignore that.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#84On the topic of Spartan societey in general, a really good read is https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/ by Dr. Bret Deveraux. Long read but well worth it for interested people.
That is a very biased article that is playing up all the aspects of Spartan society that modern audiences would find repulsive for internet likes. At the end of the day it is not unlike the film it criticises (300) except it's going all the way to the other end and painting a portrait of a grim, evil empire. It is good to keep in mind that pretty much all ancient societies had norms and customs that we find repulsive…
Iirc that series addresses this critique in some depth, pointing out that sparta was particularly awful even by the standards of other greek states. Another interesting bit was how it's historically rare for slave-owning societies to have more than 50% of their population enslaved. Since sparta was closer to 80% enslaved people, they relied on particularly brutal methods to keep down the regular slave revolts, making them considerably crueler than their contemporaries.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great series! I came out with the feeling that the Spartans were like the genteel Antebellum plantation owners of Greece: seemingly noble and stoic, but in reality terribly cruel, corrupted, and decadent.
I had been thinking about fantasy stories and what the maximumly evil evil empire you could write in a story and still have it somewhat believable. After reading that, I think Sparta is probably it, if not a little beyond it.
Honestly a lot of colonial rule feels pretty awful too, and with a similar flavor.
Yet something about Sparta seemed worse. Maybe because they maintained a kind of stability of oppression for so long, or maybe it's my own biases and the fact that oppressed and oppressor were both white and more-or-less of the same culture. Or is it inevitable that this kind of oppression also must be supported by ideologically denigration of the oppressed? But is denigration even enough, do you also need separation, the sense that the oppressed are a different people? That is, did the Spartan ruling class look down on the helots as not just inferior but alien? If so then the class differences may have had all the same attributes as race and racism but without skin color differences.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#86On the topic of Spartan societey in general, a really good read is https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/ by Dr. Bret Deveraux. Long read but well worth it for interested people.
That is a very biased article that is playing up all the aspects of Spartan society that modern audiences would find repulsive for internet likes. At the end of the day it is not unlike the film it criticises (300) except it's going all the way to the other end and painting a portrait of a grim, evil empire. It is good to keep in mind that pretty much all ancient societies had norms and customs that we find repulsive…
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Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#87The Spartan culture perished.
Most did.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#88I don’t think Sparta was as cruel and callous as portrayed. I think our view of Sparta is influenced by two main things: 1. Spartan propaganda. It was in Sparta’s interest to portray themselves as crazy, devoted warriors who relished the thought of dying for their country. How would you feel going up against a bunch of guys who would rather die on the field of battle than go home in defeat and have their own mothers…
Xenophon was an Athenian, but he was positively disposed towards Sparta and had seen military service under Spartan commanders. He's probably our best source.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#89The Spartan culture perished.
How many cultures from that era still remain?
I'm thinking Jewish culture (though it's not monolithic), that's about the only one I can think of whose customs, traditions, etc. still remain today.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#90I don't understand the point of changing words like "many" to "mony" or "man" to "mon". I mean if you're anyway writing the entire thing in modern day English then why do this.
Is it just for the effect of it I.e., making it look sophisticated? or is it some kind of attempt at retaining the originality/authenticity?