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Sayings of Spartan women

penelope.uchicago.edu

11–20 of 224 posts

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#11
I don’t think Sparta was as cruel and callous as portrayed.

I think our view of Sparta is influenced by two main things:

1. Spartan propaganda. It was in Sparta’s interest to portray themselves as crazy, devoted warriors who relished the thought of dying for their country. How would you feel going up against a bunch of guys who would rather die on the field of battle than go home in defeat and have their own mothers kill them.

2. We actually don’t have surviving first person Spartan accounts. Most of what we know about the Spartans comes from others- mainly the Athenians. Now the Athenians as bitter rivals to the Spartans also found it in their interest to portray the Spartans as crazy warrior psychopaths.

We know from history that the Spartans actually lost battles. Also in those battles, there were a lot of Spartan survivors who actually surrendered. In addition, we actually have no historical record of any mass killings of losing soldiers by their mothers.

So take what you read about Spartan warriors with a huge grain of salt.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#13

An awful lot of those sayings are extolling "willingness to commit violence" as a virtue. That's not the sort of society I think we should emulate.

Don't you have a store to loot and a city to burn and a murder rate to double and a terrorist nation to build?

One criticism I do have is it's all about dying, as in, losing. We lack a clarity. It's easier than most people think. Light those people up. Have skill. Be cagey. But don't kid yourself. You're dealing with animals who lack your compassion. Your past victim-hood means nothing, just blood in the water. The people who do claim it wins popularity and softness works have fooled you and the most malicious ones of them all. They actively seek your destruction. This isn't kindergarten!

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#14

An awful lot of those sayings are extolling "willingness to commit violence" as a virtue. That's not the sort of society I think we should emulate.

There's very much a cultist / opressive / disturbing aspect from the bits of quotes and history that have been passed on.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#16
It’s worth mentioning that Spartan women held huge amounts of wealth due to the violence within their society (men’s wealth would be inherited by their wives who would then remarry). According to Aristotle (who is very biased) the women lived lives of luxury. The point of this is that the women who extol the violence of men have a material self interest in the deaths of their men (minimally as a class, potentially individually).

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#17

An awful lot of those sayings are extolling "willingness to commit violence" as a virtue. That's not the sort of society I think we should emulate.

There's a novel twist on this particular selection too. Glorifying violence and being callous about its consequences is even more abhorrent from a position where you're guaranteed not to suffer the direct consequences.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#19

An awful lot of those sayings are extolling "willingness to commit violence" as a virtue. That's not the sort of society I think we should emulate.

Doesn't it depends on the context? Defending an elderly from assault or protecting one's family from a reckless person is violence in the name of virtue.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#20
post #7

On the topic of Spartan societey in general, a really good read is https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/ by Dr. Bret Deveraux. Long read but well worth it for interested people.

Great series! I came out with the feeling that the Spartans were like the genteel Antebellum plantation owners of Greece: seemingly noble and stoic, but in reality terribly cruel, corrupted, and decadent.
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