As the quotes come via Plutarch, I'd like to recommend Plutarch's Parallel Lives - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_Lives
He gives a biography of one famous Roman and one famous Greek and compares them.
Sayings of Spartan women
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Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#62Why are these Spartans using Scottish dialect?
Spartans spoke a different dialect of Greek (Doric) than the Athenians (Attic) and it used to be fairly common to translate bits of Doric as if they had been spoken by a Scottish Highlander.
That's an interesting choice. I wonder if they perceived a cultural similarity... you've given me something to look into.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Schopenhauer is one of history's biggest assholes, it's like his whole thing. No one liked him even when he was alive.
Have to concur, sadly. I don't take advice on ethics from a man who kicked the woman, who took care of his house, down the stairs.
And that was ethically consistent for Arthur because he didn't view women as people.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#64Obligatory - https://acoup.blog/2019/08/29/collections-this-isnt-sparta-p... Not as glorious as it is made out to be..
How can the highest rated and lowest rated comments (at this moment) be the exact same thing?
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#65An awful lot of those sayings are extolling "willingness to commit violence" as a virtue. That's not the sort of society I think we should emulate.
Potential violence != actual violence.
The potential to commit violence can be reframed as strength. It's useful because it grants you negotiating leverage, regardless of whether you are the aggressor or defender. Can't defend yourself? Vae victis.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#66On the topic of Spartan societey in general, a really good read is https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/ by Dr. Bret Deveraux. Long read but well worth it for interested people.
That is a very biased article that is playing up all the aspects of Spartan society that modern audiences would find repulsive for internet likes. At the end of the day it is not unlike the film it criticises (300) except it's going all the way to the other end and painting a portrait of a grim, evil empire.
It is good to keep in mind that pretty much all ancient societies had norms and customs that we find repulsive today, from pederasty, to slavery, including sexual slavery, to killing of female children, to depriving women of all human rights and treating them as chattel. Sparta sounds particularly bad if one does not know much about the ancients. Otherwise they sound somewhat ordinary and only a bit more up themselves than others.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some of the 5% of Spartan women who were full citizens, perhaps. However, Sparta was an extremely unequal society, with some 85% either slaves or helots (also slaves, but owned by the state, not individuals).
Well, that goes for every commentary on ancient societies. Unless it's explicitly about slaves and outcasts, it's about the at most 10% of the society that wasn't. At some point the Romans got more people to participate on their society, but that's centuries after any of that.
Do you have a source for this?
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#68...and then there's Schopenhauer: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/483552-the-cheapest-sort-of...
Schopenhauer is a twisted firestarter. See picture.
Re: Sayings of Spartan women
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Schopenhauer is one of history's biggest assholes, it's like his whole thing. No one liked him even when he was alive.
Have to concur, sadly. I don't take advice on ethics from a man who kicked the woman, who took care of his house, down the stairs.
Couldn't find a definitive source for this. Wikipedia states it was a neighbour who wouldn't leave his entrance so he pushed her out of the way. She then sued him claming she was violently assauled, had become paralyzed, and was unable to work. He was found guilty and he paid her pension 15 years until she died.