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Sayings of Spartan women

penelope.uchicago.edu

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Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#21

Post by steve76 »

tokai wrote: post #4

Hm, all most all of them are horrible. It's so impressive to me that we still proclaim Sparta as something worthwhile of praise when it was an awful inhumane culture and society that didn't even last that long.

It's awesome. Lycurgus of Sparta is a legendary law giver. It's illegal to be poor. It's illegal to be a victim. Fastest way to solve poverty or crime.

Do you judge all societies equally? The Waring States of China, or African barbarity, much more brutal. They get a pass because you want a forced ambiguity and amorality.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#22

Post by dustintrex »

orange_joe wrote: post #16

It’s worth mentioning that Spartan women held huge amounts of wealth due to the violence within their society (men’s wealth would be inherited by their wives who would then remarry). According to Aristotle (who is very biased) the women lived lives of luxury. The point of this is that the women who extol the violence of men have a material self interest in the deaths of their men (minimally as a class, potentially in…

Some of the 5% of Spartan women who were full citizens, perhaps. However, Sparta was an extremely unequal society, with some 85% either slaves or helots (also slaves, but owned by the state, not individuals).

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#24

Post by platz »

kleiba wrote: post #2

...and then there's Schopenhauer: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/483552-the-cheapest-sort-of...

> a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen

seems like an overstep

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#25

Post by dustintrex »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #11

I don’t think Sparta was as cruel and callous as portrayed. I think our view of Sparta is influenced by two main things: 1. Spartan propaganda. It was in Sparta’s interest to portray themselves as crazy, devoted warriors who relished the thought of dying for their country. How would you feel going up against a bunch of guys who would rather die on the field of battle than go home in defeat and have their own mothers…

Sparta was, if anything, more cruel and callous than portrayed, it's just that it was mostly the underclasses that were at the receiving end.

You are right in that they weren't particularly good at fighting though.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#28

Post by kybernetikos »

ianbicking wrote: post #20
herio wrote: post #7

On the topic of Spartan societey in general, a really good read is https://acoup.blog/category/collections/this-isnt-sparta/ by Dr. Bret Deveraux. Long read but well worth it for interested people.

Great series! I came out with the feeling that the Spartans were like the genteel Antebellum plantation owners of Greece: seemingly noble and stoic, but in reality terribly cruel, corrupted, and decadent.

I had been thinking about fantasy stories and what the maximumly evil evil empire you could write in a story and still have it somewhat believable. After reading that, I think Sparta is probably it, if not a little beyond it.

Re: Sayings of Spartan women

#29

Post by IncRnd »

fouc wrote: post #10

> Being asked by a woman from Attica, "Why is it that you Spartan women are the only women that lord it over your men," she said, "Because we are the only women that are mothers of men."

I found that one humorous, as well.
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