How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#221

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 11:35 AM UTC

tomasdore wrote: post #197

dragonwriter wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification ...for nothing. The right to abortion isn't premised on any of those, in general. The only one that is particularly relevant as a justification is protecting the life of the mother, and that mostly has to do with abortions later in pregnancy, Cobstitutionally. Otherwise, the justification of abortion is bo…

Bodily autonomy? Is that a thing in the law? What's the justification for the drugs laws then?

Bodily autonomy means you shouldn't be forced to do something with your body, not allowed to do everything with it.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#222

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 11:36 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #93

dimitrios1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

> The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification ...for nothing. The right to abortion isn't premised on any of those, in general. The only one that is particularly relevant as a justification is protecting the life of the mother, and that mostly has to do with abortions later in pregnancy, Cobstitutionally. Otherwise, the justification of abortion is bo…

> the justification of abortion is bodily autonomy

then why do so many pro-choicers also hate vaxxers? And please don't say "that's different, it affects other people!"

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#223

Post by denton-scratch » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 11:39 AM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #12

camkego wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far, far, far down in the blog post at section III., the author says this: > I (and the doctors in my family whom I’ve asked) am pretty much like the doctors in the article. If I get a terminal disease, I want to wring what I can out of the few months of life I have left and totally avoid any surgery, chemotherapy, amputations, ventilators, and the like. It would be a clean death. It would be okay. > My big fear, tho…

Why would that be the big fear?

Assisted dying, where it is allowed, is universally conditioned on the subject having a diagnosed terminal condition. If your diagnosis isn't "death within 6 months", then you're stuck with tubes, wires and chemicals, or waiting for it to happen.

So I also hope that if I get an incurable and unpleasant condition, it's a terminal one.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#224

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 11:42 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #221

tomasdore wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodily autonomy? Is that a thing in the law? What's the justification for the drugs laws then?

Bodily autonomy means you shouldn't be forced to do something with your body, not allowed to do everything with it.

That would cover forced conception/abortions, but how does it cover the right to an abortion?

It's not like becoming pregnant is "being forced to give birth";

if it is the distinction is meaningless since not allowing is forcing you to not do , and forcing you to do is disallowing you to not do .

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#225

Post by amcoastal » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 11:44 AM UTC

tomasdore wrote: post #197

dragonwriter wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification ...for nothing. The right to abortion isn't premised on any of those, in general. The only one that is particularly relevant as a justification is protecting the life of the mother, and that mostly has to do with abortions later in pregnancy, Cobstitutionally. Otherwise, the justification of abortion is bo…

Bodily autonomy? Is that a thing in the law? What's the justification for the drugs laws then?

Obviously the law isn't consistent. Doesn't mean we should race to the bottom though, expanding everyone's bodily autonomy should be a goal.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#226

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 11:59 AM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #224

scotty79 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodily autonomy means you shouldn't be forced to do something with your body, not allowed to do everything with it.

That would cover forced conception/abortions, but how does it cover the right to an abortion? It's not like becoming pregnant is "being forced to give birth"; if it is the distinction is meaningless since not allowing is forcing you to not do , and forcing you to do is disallowing you to not do .

Becomming pregnant is not being forced to give birth but being forced to carrying pregnancy to term and giving birth is being forced to give birth.

But you are right. This distinction is meaningless by itself.

What actually has meaning is if what we are forcing/forbidding you to do with your body puts your health and life at risk for some other benefit, for example for benefit of a single new other human.

Forcing someone to carry pregnancy to term to save the life of this new human is like forcing someone to giva a kidney to save some other person's life.

It's commendable but it shouldn't be obligatory.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#227

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:26 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #226

Chris2048 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would cover forced conception/abortions, but how does it cover the right to an abortion? It's not like becoming pregnant is "being forced to give birth"; if it is the distinction is meaningless since not allowing is forcing you to not do , and forcing you to do is disallowing you to not do .

Becomming pregnant is not being forced to give birth but being forced to carrying pregnancy to term and giving birth is being forced to give birth. But you are right. This distinction is meaningless by itself. What actually has meaning is if what we are forcing/forbidding you to do with your body puts your health and life at risk for some other benefit, for example for benefit of a single new other human. Forcing som…

But it's a little different - I'm not responsible for someone needing a kidney, but a person who becomes pregnant is (in most cases) responsible for that. That doesn't mean anyone should be "forced to carrying pregnancy to term", but it also doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished for not doing so.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#228

Post by marcus_holmes » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:30 PM UTC

bserge wrote: post #198

dom96 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What often brings me joy is thinking about my life before birth, I like to think death will be just the same. If so life after death can't be so bad.

Yeah, you'd think so. I thought so. But I can't get myself to die. After death, there's nothing . And I understand now why some people say it's terrifying. Between decades of suffering or eternity of nothing , what would you choose? Don't half ass the answer, go on a bridge with a heavy backpack zip tied to yourself, put a loaded gun to your head or have a fistful of TCA pills in your hand, whatever, then answer it.…

I was depressed for a lot of the last ten years. I thought about ending it all a lot. Part of my calm acceptance now is because of facing it so much back then.

If you're seriously contemplating it, because life is suffering, know that it's not always like that. This too shall pass. There are good times too. My life now is something I could not have imagined achieving back when I was depressed and couldn't see any future for myself. Life is also randomly wonderful. I'm incredibly grateful to my past self for struggling on through, not ending it, and getting us to here. Here is good.

Of course, this too shall pass. Enjoying the good times in full is important, because they won't last. I hope I have the courage to face my next set of bad times with the same fortitude as my past self faced them.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#229

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:39 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #227

scotty79 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becomming pregnant is not being forced to give birth but being forced to carrying pregnancy to term and giving birth is being forced to give birth. But you are right. This distinction is meaningless by itself. What actually has meaning is if what we are forcing/forbidding you to do with your body puts your health and life at risk for some other benefit, for example for benefit of a single new other human. Forcing som…

But it's a little different - I'm not responsible for someone needing a kidney, but a person who becomes pregnant is (in most cases) responsible for that. That doesn't mean anyone should be "forced to carrying pregnancy to term", but it also doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished for not doing so.

Being punished for not doing something is the same as being forced to do this.

And being responsible for getting pregnant shouldn't be automatically punished with being forced to risk your health and life for benefit of human that is not you. Unless pregnancy is a crime there should be no punishment at all. Let alone the corporal punisment.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#230

Post by R0b0t1 » Thu, Sep 09, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #77

Sebb767 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core problem is giving out a "free pass" to kill people. Very few people (at least in my experience) think that assisted suicide itself is bad, but the abuse potential is massive. And the action is, by definition, irreversible. Plus, the people that need this are (quite obviously) unable to make this happen on their own. So this comes with the additional moral qualms of whether this is really what the wan…

> but the abuse potential is massive. How so? We don't have to create a system in which it is legal to shoot someone in the head and then claim they asked you to do it. Have it be a medical procedure that must be done in a hospital by government certified doctors. You can even require a psych evaluation before it becomes an option. I can understand there being some gray area in which it isn't clear that the person ha…

There's a system in india where mercy killings are normal and there are plenty of stories of families plotting to kill their elders. It could end up like that if normalized.