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How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

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Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#91

Post by amyjess »

amatecha wrote: post #42
amyjess wrote: post #35

I long ago decided that if I got a terminal disease, I would refuse any treatment that would extend my quantity of life at the expense of my quality of life. I've seen what chemo does to people. No thank you. If I get cancer, I'll just self-medicate with whatever opioids I can get my hands on until either the cancer kills me or the pain gets bad enough that the opioids stop being able to do anything for it, at which…

Don't be so quick to decide this now -- consider your options at the time, if such a thing arises. It may not be so cut & dry as "terminal" and there's a huge amount of variability in how cancer diagnoses go. In the meantime, take the best care of your body you possibly can :)

Even if the cancer has a very high survival rate following chemo, if the only way to save my life involves losing my hair I will refuse treatment and let myself die.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#92

Post by jeffbee »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #71
Sebb767 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core problem is giving out a "free pass" to kill people. Very few people (at least in my experience) think that assisted suicide itself is bad, but the abuse potential is massive. And the action is, by definition, irreversible. Plus, the people that need this are (quite obviously) unable to make this happen on their own. So this comes with the additional moral qualms of whether this is really what the wan…

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

Eh, spurious reasoning. The 0.10% case is not the underpinning for the right to abortion in the United States. In our jurisprudence the right to abortion is guaranteed by the constitutional right to privacy. So, your argument starts from a false premise, and the facts that happen to be true don't redeem it.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#93

Post by dragonwriter »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #71
Sebb767 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core problem is giving out a "free pass" to kill people. Very few people (at least in my experience) think that assisted suicide itself is bad, but the abuse potential is massive. And the action is, by definition, irreversible. Plus, the people that need this are (quite obviously) unable to make this happen on their own. So this comes with the additional moral qualms of whether this is really what the wan…

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

> The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification

...for nothing. The right to abortion isn't premised on any of those, in general. The only one that is particularly relevant as a justification is protecting the life of the mother, and that mostly has to do with abortions later in pregnancy, Cobstitutionally.

Otherwise, the justification of abortion is bodily autonomy.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#94

Post by eximius »

burlesona wrote: post #68
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just yesterday there was an article on Hacker News attacking Bezos for having the pride and selfishness to attempt to cure aging: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28440348 "Be fine with dying of old age or else you're a villain" is this weird, fundamental, Christian part of our common mythos/ethics/stories. The evil villain seeks immortality. The kindly old witch or wizard or Pope dies peacefully because it is ri…

Why did you feel the need to slam this as “Christian?” There’s nothing in Christianity that speaks against medicine or trying to extend life. The only thing that is different for Christians is they believe death is not the final end, and thus have less reason to be afraid. They still don’t want to die. Would you be comfortable slamming other religions in the same causal way? If not, why not?

Hacker News is US-centric. The US is Christian-centric (religiously and culturally). And there has been a truly bizarre push almost entirely among evangelicals recently to just accept mortality where its absolutely not needed (e.g., during the pandemic).

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#95

Post by metalliqaz »

slg wrote: post #77
Sebb767 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core problem is giving out a "free pass" to kill people. Very few people (at least in my experience) think that assisted suicide itself is bad, but the abuse potential is massive. And the action is, by definition, irreversible. Plus, the people that need this are (quite obviously) unable to make this happen on their own. So this comes with the additional moral qualms of whether this is really what the wan…

> but the abuse potential is massive. How so? We don't have to create a system in which it is legal to shoot someone in the head and then claim they asked you to do it. Have it be a medical procedure that must be done in a hospital by government certified doctors. You can even require a psych evaluation before it becomes an option. I can understand there being some gray area in which it isn't clear that the person ha…

... then the psych evaluator gets sued by kin, etc.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#96

Post by dimitrios1 »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #76
dimitrios1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

And a lot better societal outcomes. Unwanted babies suck and end up having bad lives, negatively affecting their parents’ lives as well.

Too bad we can't ask unwanted babies if they would rather have been born into a bad life.

This isn't directed at you, but I have had countless conversations about this very topic. The detriments are greatly overstated. I've found usually people are talking of these things outside looking in in an ideological vacuum, and not an experiential one.

Let's take societal outcomes for african americans, as an example. What people don't realize is, when people speak of abortions in a vaccuum (and lets be frank -- it's usually white liberals who champion it the hardest), the elephant in the room is with african american women carry out the disproportionate volume of abortions, and the the overwhelming majority of Planned Parenthood locations being located in poor and black neighborhoods. There is a large argument now that is catching on in many african american communities that maybe if we had the estimated 11 million more black babies born in this country, black representation would be much better off in all matters of the socioeconomic and political spheres, resulting in better lives overall for the general population. In 2015, in association with National Black Pro-Life Coalition, Protecting Black Life, and National Black Pro-Life Union met with CURE to deliver a congressional report detailing all of these facts, and making the strong case that the economic and societal impact of all the abortions in the black community is far greater. I encourage everyone to read it: https://www.congress.gov/115/meeting/house/106562/witnesses/...

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#97

Post by RickJWagner »

ehnto wrote: post #79
dimitrios1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

There are other reasons people want to get abortions, such as knowing they can't provide for the child or give them a safe/stable household. Adoption is rare, and the foster system in most countries absolutely ruins kids. So those aren't good alternatives.

I'd hope someone would know fairly early in the pregnancy if they will be able to provide for a child or not. (i.e. before the baby can feel pain, is basically a complete human being, etc.)

That's why there's so much interest in defining limits around abortions. Late term abortions are pretty much described as horrific by the vast majority. There should be room for political agreement here.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#98

Post by dimitrios1 »

symlinkk wrote: post #86
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have citations for the numbers you provided? Thanks! (I’m genuinely asking because it never occurred to me that you can track the amount of a private medical procedures occurrence across states and stuff…)

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/pdfs/ss6907a1-H.pdf Although the numbers are a bit different here, maybe he’s referencing a newer data set. Still it’s shocking: > non-Hispanic Black women had the highest abortion rate (21.2 abortions per 1,000 women) and ratio (335 abortions per 1,000 live births)

No sorry, it is my numbers that are outdated. I was referencing a 2015 congressional report. Abortion rates have been declining sharply over the past few years, so that's good news at least.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#99

Post by WillPostForFood »

ehnto wrote: post #79
dimitrios1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

There are other reasons people want to get abortions, such as knowing they can't provide for the child or give them a safe/stable household. Adoption is rare, and the foster system in most countries absolutely ruins kids. So those aren't good alternatives.

>Adoption is rare

What you mean by that? There is extremely high demand to adopt newborns, which is why parents desperate for children adopt from other countries. There is currently a waiting list of 2 million families willing to adopt newborns.

Children in foster care are different story - people are much less willing to adopt older kids.

Re: How Doctors die. It’s not like the rest of us (2016)

#100

Post by armchairhacker »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #71
Sebb767 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core problem is giving out a "free pass" to kill people. Very few people (at least in my experience) think that assisted suicide itself is bad, but the abuse potential is massive. And the action is, by definition, irreversible. Plus, the people that need this are (quite obviously) unable to make this happen on their own. So this comes with the additional moral qualms of whether this is really what the wan…

And we see how this has worked out for abortion. The 0.10% case of either saving a woman's life or in cases of rape and incest as turned into the justification for aborting 189 babies for every 1000 live births -- or in the african american community 487 babies for every 1000 live births. Once you open the flood gates, you will have plenty who kill themselves who otherwise wouldn't with just a little bit of extra sup…

Holy crap those numbers are awful. Personally I'm slightly on the side of pro-choice, but we really need to educate people more on birth control.
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