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Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

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Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#51

Post by josephcsible »

Sebb767 wrote: post #45
echelon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing semantics, not intent. Just call it something new if definitions matter so much. "Fair Play Source", "Fair and Open", etc. Fuck open source the way Amazon likes it. Look at how the giants abuse it to crush smaller innovators. It's not rewarding the original authors. It's turning them into labor slaves whose collective work is captured and monetized, with little hope of fair competition or reward. Might…

Amazon is working on a fully open version that you can fork, edit and host yourself. Elastic closed their product and is changing their client libraries to not support the open version. In fact, this whole thing started because Elastic got envious of Amazons revenue, which is not quite the open source spirit. I mean, I get why Elastic is not happy. But in this case, neither intent is pure, but at least the result on…

> But in this case, neither intent is pure, but at least the result on the Amazon side is.

Indeed. Amazon may be doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but that's still better than doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, which is what Elastic did.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#52

Post by Sebb767 »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #43
atarian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amazon is the good guy This is exactly what Amazon wants you to think. That's why they're calling it "OpenSearch" and not "AmazonSearch".

It’s one of those things. Until Amazon does this to you, you will love that company no matter how many people they will screw over. Mind you this company basically is a monopoly in multiple domains. I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us.

Not everything Amazon does is evil. And not everything Elastic did is good. I highly doubt a lot of people in this thread would sign off that Amazon generally is a good company; it's just that in this case, they're on the right side, in part just because Elastic made it easy to be.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#53

Post by josephcsible »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #43
atarian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amazon is the good guy This is exactly what Amazon wants you to think. That's why they're calling it "OpenSearch" and not "AmazonSearch".

It’s one of those things. Until Amazon does this to you, you will love that company no matter how many people they will screw over. Mind you this company basically is a monopoly in multiple domains. I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us.

> I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us.

We're not. We're aligning with them because they happened to do something legitimately good. Being a villain doesn't mean that literally everything you do is bad.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#54

Post by binarymax »

altdataseller wrote: post #46
binarymax wrote: post #44

So many people in this discussion take sides. The only thing I see, is divergence. APIs will now evolve separately, and compatibility will break soon. I think this competition and diversification will be good for innovation in search. But it’s also going to be confusing for a while. If you use Elasticsearch in Amazon, you better decide very quickly whether you want to hitch your wagon to the OpenSearch future. Migrat…

Why would most companies need to migrate if they're happy with the features in a past version? Why not stick with it (assuming there are no major security flaws?)

Well, how far is Amazon going to take OpenSearch? Elastic is all in on innovating and building their flagship product forever with significant dedication. AWS just needs something good enough as an offering to go with the rest of their OK cloud services.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#55

Post by tfehring »

altdataseller wrote: post #50
bink wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those rare situations where I can see both sides and I'm thankful I don't have to make the decisions Elastic.co did. Most open source companies don't have to worry too much about competitors grabbing their code and forking it because they have the expertise needed to improve and support it and there isn't much incentive for customers to leave them. But this is Amazon we're talking about. They can packa…

>> That said I wish Elastic had chosen a better license and I wish they wouldn't charge for basic security options like SAML, RBAC, and encryption. What better licenses or monetization strategy would have allowed them to charge enterprises who use it for more commercial purposes, and allow the individuals/casual users to use it for free?

AGPLv3. Off the top of my head, Grafana and RStudio already do that and seem to have had the desired result. I’m sure there are others.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#56

Post by mohanmcgeek »

dhd415 wrote: post #25

While this is tangentially related to Amazon's fork of Elasticsearch, it's more related to Elastic's trademark infringement suit against AWS's use of the trademarked Elasticsearch name in their managed service, especially egregious given AWS's attempt to portray it as a "partnership" with Elastic in a since-deleted tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/ppgosavi/status/11791819009690378...

I doubt Amazon cares about that suit. If anything, it's elastic that hugely benefited from calling their product after countless Amazon products that have the word elastic in them.

Amazon can show that EC2 predates the company by half a decade atleast

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#57

Post by jusonchan81 »

josephcsible wrote: post #53
jusonchan81 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s one of those things. Until Amazon does this to you, you will love that company no matter how many people they will screw over. Mind you this company basically is a monopoly in multiple domains. I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us.

> I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us. We're not. We're aligning with them because they happened to do something legitimately good. Being a villain doesn't mean that literally everything you do is bad.

I’m curious though, did Elastic’s license change impact you in anyway? Were you planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering? What exactly is the legitimate good Amazon did here?

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#58

Post by mohanmcgeek »

simlevesque wrote: post #3

I changed from AWS managed ElasticSearch to Elastic.co a couple of months ago. Should have done it sooner.

If the elastic product were better, they shouldn't have bait-n-switched the licence to non-free.

They would have competed on the merits of the product. Looks like whoever is making these decisions is not familiar with what made them popular with Devs in the first place.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#59

Post by theamk »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #57
josephcsible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us. We're not. We're aligning with them because they happened to do something legitimately good. Being a villain doesn't mean that literally everything you do is bad.

I’m curious though, did Elastic’s license change impact you in anyway? Were you planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering? What exactly is the legitimate good Amazon did here?

We wanted to have multiple service providers for Elastic. So if one company goes bad or raises prices (be it Elastic or Amazon or something else) we can move to a different one.

Re: Amazon Elasticsearch Service Is Now Amazon OpenSearch Service

#60

Post by josephcsible »

jusonchan81 wrote: post #57
josephcsible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m afraid of the world where we align with the villain on something only because it’s convenient for us. We're not. We're aligning with them because they happened to do something legitimately good. Being a villain doesn't mean that literally everything you do is bad.

I’m curious though, did Elastic’s license change impact you in anyway? Were you planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering? What exactly is the legitimate good Amazon did here?

No, it doesn't directly impact me, since I'm not planning on offering Elasticsearch as a managed cloud offering. But just because something doesn't benefit me personally doesn't mean that I shouldn't consider it a good thing. For example, I'm not a child and don't have cancer, but I'd still consider it a legitimate good thing if someone donated money to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
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