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20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

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Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#621

Post by [deleted] »

hunterb123 wrote: post #576
zucked wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The curve is flattened, the goal posts have been moved out of the stadium. How are you quantifying that? The original intent of flattening the curve was to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system and here we are... overwhelming the healthcare system(s) again. A quick check of capacity of ICU beds in the SE USA shows that on average, hospitals are running 92% capacity(1). Obviously you want right-sized ICU capacity…

You would need to know the normal margin and the % that covid patients are taking for that to be significant.

[deleted]

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#622

Post by snowwrestler »

bserge wrote: post #248
duxup wrote: post #222

So much security that not sense. I attend college football games. Everyone goes through security. Outside security we pack up in masses of humanity outside the gates waiting to get through the inevitably slow security. It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security ... than in the stadium where people are actually more spread out. If someon…

The goal of terrorism is to scare people into restricting their own freedoms. It has worked amazingly well so far. To any motivated anti-society organization or person, this is huge leverage. A few deaths leading to a noticeably more authoritarian state? What's not to love? It doesn't even matter if the authorities do their job and punish those responsible, the people will still choose to restrict their own freedoms…

Osama bin Laden did not care about our freedoms, he wanted the U.S. out of the Middle East and believed based on Somalia that dramatically attacking us would lead to that result. This is well documented.

We have to be careful to not assign whatever motivation or outcome we don’t like as “the goal of terrorism.” You can justify anything that way, and people do. “If you do the thing I don’t like, the terrorists win” can cut both ways.

Terrorists have specific goals they are trying to achieve with violence, usually ideological or political or both. Bin Laden thought his ideology would have room to grow if he could scare the U.S. into leaving. He was wrong about that. The fact that we still have to take shoes off at the airport (annoying as it is) does not mean he won.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#623

Post by hunterb123 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #618
hunterb123 wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real things? Please point to the real things. Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!! Yeah that has been said over and over. Things are fine. Go outside of the city, noone respects this stuff and hasn't the whole time, noone is dying more than usual. Worry about cars and obesity if you want to make a difference.

:/ just because rural folks don’t care the hospital is full doesn’t mean the hospital isn’t full

Not at all what I said. The hospital isn't full. Show me a single hospital that is OVER or AT capacity.

All the fear mongering articles say is the ICU is at 90%~

They are always around that number. Show me the percentage of covid patients in that ICU. Show me the normal number of the ICU.

Worry about obesity if you want to stop the number one and two killers of humans and relieve our healthcare system.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#624

Post by jazzyjackson »

lexapro wrote: post #346
wpietri wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the primary goal of security at a college football game to stop a suicide bomber? I strongly doubt that's how they see it.

Yeah, isn't it to prevent hooligans from bringing weapons into the stadium?

alcohol more like

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#625

Post by elnino74 »

GhostVII wrote: post #537

We should have some kind of dashboard tracking how many people die from terrorism, car crashes, heart disease, COVID, etc., and how much time and money we spend trying to prevent these deaths. We are just so terrible at evaluating risk, for some reason it is OK to waste everyone's time with over the top security to stop a tiny portion of terrorism deaths, while still being OK with high speed limits that kill thousand…

Not sure how you make such a dashboard when the expensive prevention measures affect the number of deaths. I think you are looking for number of deaths if the prevention measures weren't in place, but i'm not sure how you could arrive to that number accurately.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#626

Post by krastanov »

jedberg wrote: post #612

The way you know it is all security theater is TSA pre. I haven't taken my shoes off, my laptop out, or gone through the hands-on-your-head scanner in years, because the TSA pre-check line doesn't require any of that. Because apparently verifying my ID before arrival at the airport makes me less of a threat. Or maybe it's the $80 they get every few years that makes me less of a threat...

Regretfully, "Available to US citizens, nationals and LPRs" only.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#627

Post by duxup »

hunterb123 wrote: post #543
duxup wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does any of that mean? You're talking about "aren't thinking" but most of your posts just involve nebulous throw away phrases like "People have immunity"... clearly you know that phrase doesn't mean anything right? In the meantime we can all see for ourselves actual impact, real things, in areas where vaccination rates are low. These aren't nebulous concepts like your phrases, they're real.

Real things? Please point to the real things. Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!! Yeah that has been said over and over. Things are fine. Go outside of the city, noone respects this stuff and hasn't the whole time, noone is dying more than usual. Worry about cars and obesity if you want to make a difference.

Are you saying "Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!!" isn't real?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#628

Post by vmception »

switch007 wrote: post #353
bserge wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methodologies vary, but comparing deaths to any of the previous years, it is clear that they've increased. And the only major change was the new virus. But of course, never let a good chance go to waste. We'll see an increase in restrictions because of Covid, they're not going away anytime soon.

Then they can cite an excess deaths stat then.

your point here seems to be that people aren't doing that

who is "they" in your opinion, because plenty of people and organizations do cite excess death stats

are you really so far removed that you need us to provide a citation on excess deaths, this far into things? this reminds me of conversations in May 2020, because this entire conversation was procedurally generated in May 2020. Have you considered the possibility that all your apps marginalized you in this niche where no other information is shown to you everyday for the past year?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#629

Post by tintor »

GhostVII wrote: post #537

We should have some kind of dashboard tracking how many people die from terrorism, car crashes, heart disease, COVID, etc., and how much time and money we spend trying to prevent these deaths. We are just so terrible at evaluating risk, for some reason it is OK to waste everyone's time with over the top security to stop a tiny portion of terrorism deaths, while still being OK with high speed limits that kill thousand…

Tracking how many people die from different causes is easy. Difficulty is tracking how many lives were saved with specific preventive measure.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#630

Post by abstractbarista »

newswasboring wrote: post #268
CountDrewku wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok then what's the target? Eradication of the virus is not achievable and neither is full vaccination of the entire population. I have yet to hear any hard numbers for removal of "safety" measures from any politician when enacting lockdowns/mandates. I think you're fooling yourself if you believe there's some hard target.

The target is to save lives. If the threat is still there, we need to keep the safety measures. And covid measures have always been dynamic. Safety measures have been removed or reintroduced based up on very hard statistics man. I don't know how you don't see that. edit: My first sentence was a bit garbage. The target is to save lives from covid and avoid its spread. Hospital utilization and mortality rate from the d…

That may be the target, but the real outcome is simply delaying those deaths, spreading them out more over time.
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