20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports? • Hacker News Board

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#271

Post by nradov » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

anthony_romeo wrote: post #262

nickthemagicman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many deaths in a certain age group above 65 y.o.. Most age groups had very few deaths.

In your opinion, how important are the lives of people aged 65 and older? Also, for death rates being higher in the elderly... isn't that going to be true for most diseases? Pointing this out seems tautological to me. And what does "very few" actually mean here? Is death the only negative outcome of COVID-19?

You can find CDC estimates of deaths by age group here.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#272

Post by bluedino » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

mrmcd wrote: post #216

Just pay the government a $100 bribe^W 'application processing fee' for Precheck or Global Entry, and no more taking off your shoes. Or taking out your laptops or liquids, or having a government employee look you over in the nudie scanner. Also, shorter, faster lines. But all this is actually necessary and not security theater. We promise.

$85 and it lasts for 5 years. Quite the deal.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#273

Post by jdavis703 » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #222

So much security that not sense. I attend college football games. Everyone goes through security. Outside security we pack up in masses of humanity outside the gates waiting to get through the inevitably slow security. It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security ... than in the stadium where people are actually more spread out. If someon…

> We have secure ID schemes that I believe most if not all of the 9/11 attackers would have qualified to get ...

Secure ID is designed so people on various no fly lists won’t be allowed to fly should they acquire a fake ID. How well this works in practice remains to be seen, but it’s the theory at least.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#274

Post by cujo » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

ctrlp wrote: post #230

The obvious purpose of removing shoes at airports has long been more about security theater than safety. The authorities must be seen to be doing something to protect travelers or the industry might not survive the customer's perception of danger. But, the less obvious reasons surely include maintaining the function of the huge TSA security apparatus put in place after 9/11. The stated function of the TSA is to prote…

> Now, we will likely add further controls on travel in the form of digital health passports with infinitely more possibility for government mischief.

How do you see digital health passports as having infinitely more possibility for govt mischief? Right now TSA has the ability to treat you like a criminal if they think you looked at them funny.

The health passport "mischief" seems more along the lines of "you don't have vaccine X, so you can't board the plane." While potentially problematic, that's kind of the end of it. It becomes a no-fly list, but one where you can actually control your status on it.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#275

Post by aspaviento » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #222

So much security that not sense. I attend college football games. Everyone goes through security. Outside security we pack up in masses of humanity outside the gates waiting to get through the inevitably slow security. It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security ... than in the stadium where people are actually more spread out. If someon…

Maybe it's just for discouraging people from any attempt.

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#276

Post by irrational » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #231

duxup wrote: post #222

So much security that not sense. I attend college football games. Everyone goes through security. Outside security we pack up in masses of humanity outside the gates waiting to get through the inevitably slow security. It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity there where there is no security ... than in the stadium where people are actually more spread out. If someon…

That security isn’t necessarily to stop terrorism. It’s also to stop people from bringing in weapons and then using them in drunken brawls.

But, that wasn’t even a problem pre-2001. Do you not remember what things were like pre 9/11?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#277

Post by throwaway_dcnt » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #235

bedhead wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass loss of life. Novel way in which people died. People dying randomly (hard to avoid). General hysteria. Paranoia over a minority group. Moral outrage against anyone not falling inline politically. Overreaching government plans to keep people safe. Petty symbolism (freedom fries/masks) to sort the moral from the immoral. Should I go on?

You think masks are petty symbolism? I think that kind of trolling just raises the temperature here, which I'd like to avoid, so no, please, do not go on.

Do we think security theater is symbolism? It has had some positives over the years just as masks have a huge positive health impact during COVID but on both sides of the issue, people treat it as a signal as well, no?

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#278

Post by dustintrex » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #180

chrisseaton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Correct, but I think the general escalation of security in airports which caught the Richard Reid Eh? But he wasn't caught due to airport security. He got onto the plane and tried to set off the bomb during the flight. He would have been caught if someone had looked at his shoes.

But if he knew they were checking shoes at airport security, then he probably would have put it somewhere else.

Let's all be grateful this dude didn't try to pull his underwear bomb stunt on an airplane.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/09/30/saudi.arabia.a...

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#279

Post by monkeynotes » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

mgoetzke wrote: post #177

monkeynotes wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this sounds like a risk for service cart/flight attendant/exiting pilot being overcome and entry gained to the cockpit. Even better a hijacker knows exactly when the opportunity arises as the service cart will be moved into place indicating the dance is about to start. Furthermore, what's to stop suicide pilot murdering co-pilot behind a locked door?

Nothing is ever safe though. One can put up obstacles, potentially slow it down to make it less likely though.

But a service cart and flight attendant seems like an entirely ineffective obstacle so what's the point? I think I don't know enough about how this "dance" works to comment, so maybe I'll just shut up :)

Re: 20 years after 9/11: Will we ever stop taking our shoes off at airports?

#280

Post by conductr » Wed, Sep 08, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

MrGilbert wrote: post #228

Totally unrelated, but I still remember what I did on 9/11. I was in my teens. I know the date, I know the weekday, I know everything I did in the 24 hours it happened. However, despite being the much "fresher" events, I don't know the weekday my grandparents and parents passed away, let alone what I did back then. My memory is... interesting.

I'm a bit older and have experienced a handful of 9/11-like events [0]. They always stand out more vividly as a shared global/national experience whereas things like family members passing is highly localized to your family. You could easily escape the mourning by talking to friends/coworkers/etc that had no idea your family member passed and the conversation would give you a sense of normalcy. During/following 9/11, there was nobody to talk to that wasn't thinking about the events that just occurred. It consumed the nation for a fair bit of time.

[0] Challenger, OKC, 9/11, even the first WTC attacks and princess Diana & OJ fit this category in terms of memory imprinting. I'm too young for JFK, but that was a big one too. My uncle says he can remember everyone being very sad and glued to the TV, he was 3.