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El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

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Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#281

Post by BTCOG »

okl wrote: post #234
BTCOG wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% BULLSHIT. The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. Unless you stand here trying to tell everyone that 10 cents is a crazy transaction fee. Quit lying, or better yet quit spreading FUD purposely.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees... https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f... https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction

So today, the low priority (and for the past few weeks) has been sitting at 6-7 satoshi per vByte. If you do not understand and watch the blocks to realize you can simply set to around 3-4 sats/vB and get in within 2-3 blocks when a block comes along with merely a few hundred transactions in it, sure you're going to pay about 65-75 cents. But I'll pay 10 cents and still get in, while you pay 75 cents. It's not zealotry to tell the truth about using Bitcoin regularly and those that use Bitcoin all understand the fees have been 10-75 cents max all year long. My own sources don't back me up? Anyone using Bitcoin at least once or twice per week the past solid 9 months can attest that transaction fees have been floating from 3-8 sats/vB and you can comb through ALL the blocks you want to figure it out. Or don't figure it out. You're here to spread FUD quite clearly, anyhow.

The fee was NEVER once $62 per tx in ALL of April, I sent numerous transactions all that month long for mere cents.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#282

Post by lottin »

adim86 wrote: post #205
okl wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand I agree with your assessment. On the other you argue with a personal anecdote -- not much better, is it?

Actually it is because we are dealing with an factual data point (I), rather than someone using hyperbole by saying something is ONLY used for x. one data point proves that wrong

One data point disproves that it can't be used for purposes other than tax evasion and money laundering, it doesn't disprove that is commonly used for this purpose and little else.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#283

Post by [deleted] »

dmichulke wrote: post #133
mimikatz wrote: post #26

Down 1.6 million the first day. Good luck 400 coins BTC-USD Bitcoin USD 47,256.78 -4,285.39 -8.31%

In Jan 2020, the USD monetary base (= the other legal tender in El Salvador) was 15.3 trillions, in Jan 2021 it was 19. That's a drop of 24% in purchasing power. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2

[deleted]

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#284

Post by okl »

zsmi wrote: post #274
okl wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the numbers. Bitcoin is just not worth it's ecological footprint: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

That's new to me. It seems the argument hinges on this fact, "Bitcoin could therefore theoretically handle around 220 million transactions annually." I think the assumption that there will be no innovation in this space, optimizations will never decrease the amount of computing resources required for a bitcoin transaction, and nothing can be done, is probably incorrect. Some prospects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B…

The pollution is happening right now. You must realize that appealing to a hypothetical future solution doesn't excuse us from our obligation to do things right in the present.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#285

Post by lottin »

Ancapistani wrote: post #233
kleer001 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy use is not energy source. There's been no full accounting of the carbon footprint of bitcoin mining, only its use. Much of it is done using geothermal or other renewable sources. (edit, incorrect) That El Salvador is adopting it refutes your second claim. Then there's the lightning network which increases the transaction throughput. Everything is going to be okay.

> Energy use is not energy source I’ll go a step further - Bitcoin’s energy use is centralized around the cheapest sources due to economic forces. If renewables are cheaper at scale than fossil fuels, Bitcoin’s energy use could in fact become a net positive for the world. To put it another way, the profitability of mining is directly proportional to the cost of electricity compared to the global average. This should…

Absolute rubbish. You talk like there's something magical about Bitcoin, when in fact every profit-maximising firm will always use the cheapest energy available. Seriously what kind of pathetic argument is this, or am I missing something?

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#286

Post by quantumBerry »

rory wrote: post #277
quantumBerry wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a drop relative to what it would be if the money supply had not increased accordingly, not versus what the purchasing power was at that point in time.

No, again that's simply not correct. We can empirically observe purchasing power and money supply, so there's no need to speculate. One-time changes to M2 of that magnitude have been shown to have small to no effect on inflation [0]. [0] https://www.commonfund.org/blog/chart-of-the-month-money-sup...

Your own article admits that the lack of inflation is due to other factors such as reduced lending and velocity of money. All else equal if there were 40 rubles in the economy yesterday and 80 tomorrow, your rubles have half the purchasing power they had before. The printing of the money prevented a deflationary effect that would have enrichened those who held onto dollars under a period of anemic lending and lowered velocity of money. So yeah, it really is a drop relative to what the value would have been if new money had not been printed.

"For excess liquidity to create inflation, it needs to lead to a sustained increase in spending and loan growth. So far, bank lending has been anemic while the global velocity of money and the money multiplier (the ratio of broad money to base money) has fallen more than during the Great Financial Crisis. "

"the secular trends of automation and robotization, declining labor force participation, aging population and high debt levels will continue to suppress inflation over the long-term"

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#287

Post by cwkoss »

edgefield wrote: post #195
kleer001 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Energy use is not energy source. There's been no full accounting of the carbon footprint of bitcoin mining, only its use. Much of it is done using geothermal or other renewable sources. (edit, incorrect) That El Salvador is adopting it refutes your second claim. Then there's the lightning network which increases the transaction throughput. Everything is going to be okay.

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency in its current form is environmental lunacy. I don't know what problem digital currency solves when the planet can no longer sustain human life due to climate change.

100 corporations are responsible for 71% of global emissions.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10...

I struggle to find hand wringing about bitcoin's energy consumption as anything but naive or sour grapes.

Society is never going to voluntarily reverse total energy consumption. Either price bitcoin mining out of the market, or focus on voting with your wallet and regulating carbon emissions at the energy production level. Arguing about how people should spend their money on energy is a waste of political energy.

Millions of people believe that bitcoin is worth the energy costs. "Too much" energy usage is entirely subjective.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#288

Post by TenJack »

Ancapistani wrote: post #262
TenJack wrote: post #211

Why not use a stablecoin? Or are they dealing with Bitcoin volatility in another way?

What advantage would a stablecoin have over using the underlying currency directly? It has the significant disadvantage of adding an additional trust entity (the backing bank) which could prove untrustworthy. Over a long enough timescale, I would argue that all backing banks have proven to be untrustworthy.

Doesn’t it seem concerning to tie a countries currency to something so volatile that it could literally halve over night? Not trying to argue. Just trying to understand.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#289

Post by dmichulke »

rory wrote: post #277
quantumBerry wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a drop relative to what it would be if the money supply had not increased accordingly, not versus what the purchasing power was at that point in time.

No, again that's simply not correct. We can empirically observe purchasing power and money supply, so there's no need to speculate. One-time changes to M2 of that magnitude have been shown to have small to no effect on inflation [0]. [0] https://www.commonfund.org/blog/chart-of-the-month-money-sup...

The post talks about inflation but doesn't mention which measure it uses. Hmmm...

Also, the correlation coefficient 0.15 and an R^2 of 0.02. It means it doesn't explain all variance in the inflation but it clearly influences it.

Finally, your last comments sounds like we actually can have a free lunch.

Re: El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as official currency, first country to do so

#290

Post by quantumBerry »

arcticbull wrote: post #272
quantumBerry wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exchange are you using? A major exchange like Kraken charges ~.25% for small traders and lower for bigger ones. You can also buy face to face from someone; if you're lucky someone may need to dump some coin and be willing to trade at par with market. If I'm an el salvadoran with no documentation in the US I can send my $15k wages for like $40 to any individual in El Salvador (who can now use it as currency once…

Coinbase. Where I suspect most people actually transact.

Can you think of a traditional international transfer service that has better rates for I think the only thing cheaper may be to find some company that allows international wire for very cheap, and that normally requires holding a lot of fiat in the bank.
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