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Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

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Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#111

Post by hughrr »

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

That’s because you can’t have a rational discussion about cannabis online. Anything negative is dismissed, apologised away, compared immediately to alcohol or you are accused of providing anecdotes by the proponents.

This in itself dismisses the credibility of the proponents in my mind.

The funny thing is you don’t see this with alcoholics. They know what they’re doing is bad and admit it easily but can’t stop.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#112

Post by kazinator »

JasonFruit wrote: post #64
oceanplexian wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s certainly not all good but I’d put it in a different league from alcohol, for example. Cannabis might cause elevated heart risk over a period of years. Alcohol can stop the heart of a healthy person in a single night of binge drinking.

Thank you for illustrating my point so nicely, in response to absolutely no assertions about cannabis .

Indeed, you made no assertions about cannabis; you made an ad hominem assertion that people only minimize any suggestion that cannabis (or smoked meats, or Lisp or anything else) is "not all good" because they like it; as if they could never use any objective tools, like data.

All that oceanplexian's response proved "so nicely" is that people will sometimes fall for ad hominem assertions and try to engage them.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#113

Post by galaxyLogic »

nwienert wrote: post #90
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never argued it doesn't provide relief, what I'm arguing is that relief is somewhat of an illusion if you're suffering from persistent mental health issues, hence a crutch.

Only a person who doesn’t drink caffeine, alcohol, or any other drug (including aspirin and other non psychoactives) can approach making this claim. Hell, you could say the same thing to someone who enjoys a small dessert every night. Or a bath. So long as they’d feel sad to not have it, they are then avoiding a problem, right? Or… humans just really enjoy having diverse things to do, and all find different balances…

And there's really nothing wrong with crutches. If your leg hurts they help you get around. I don't get all this anti-crutches rhetoric

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#114

Post by mcguire »

InitialLastName wrote: post #79
EL_Loco wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My two heaviest marijuana smoker friends are 100% sure that any study that mentions some detrimental effect from marijuana is part of a big-pharma conspiracy. Their argument is that "it's a natural herb, it's impossible for it to do harm".

The correct response: "So is hemlock".

"Care for some foxglove salad?"

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#116

Post by unethical_ban »

hughrr wrote: post #111
zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

That’s because you can’t have a rational discussion about cannabis online. Anything negative is dismissed, apologised away, compared immediately to alcohol or you are accused of providing anecdotes by the proponents. This in itself dismisses the credibility of the proponents in my mind. The funny thing is you don’t see this with alcoholics. They know what they’re doing is bad and admit it easily but can’t stop.

The funny thing is you saying "you can't have a discussion online" as we are having a discussion online and you are responding to someone who said what you were thinking.

I am completely open to the concept that cannabis consumption is not always healthy for people, depending on delivery method, quantity, and the state of mind of the individual.

I also, almost without qualification, will dismiss the health risks as a rationale for continuing its general prohibition. And (wait for it)... yeah, it's because there are myriad substances and behaviors that can cause harm, but we don't outright ban them.

So no, I'm not saying "don't tell me how it could be harmful" - especially as an occasional user, I want to know as real studies (and trusted anecdotes among friends) come about. Just don't use evidence of some adverse effects as a justification for prohibition, which politicians and puritans are quick to attempt.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#118

Post by MisterBastahrd »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #12
arpinum wrote: post #3

I appreciate the study calls out that most cannabis is smoked, and it may be general smoke inhalation driving these results rather than an inherent property of cannabis

It very likely is due to smoke inhalation or even mixing with tobacco; IIRC inhalation of any kind of micro- and nanoparticles is linked to higher risk of myocardial infarction.

I know of at least one company that was founded to provide cigar enthusiasts a way to get access to tobacco to roll their own cigars at home, because the industry usually requires you to purchase the product by the bale. Because of the fragility of wrapper tobacco, they would place these in humidified sealed pouches.

They soon learned that there was a large market for this and now they make 99% of their revenue selling wrappers in convenience stores. The cigar tobacco shop is still there, because it was mostly a labor of love instead of a true business venture.

So what used to be paper wrappers is now replaced with a more premium product, but that premium product happens to be black tobacco which is much harsher than the cigarette tobacco people inhale regularly.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#119

Post by arsome »

hereme888 wrote: post #117

Now that organically grown, super high quality marijuana gummies and candies are legally available in many places, why do people still smoke vs. eat it? It seems so much safer and the precise dose predictable.

The effects are quite different for most people due to the lack of first-pass metabolism with inhalation which converts digested THC to a different form. Dry herb vaporizers might be a better suggestion.

A friend of mine who's a daily smoker finds the edible effects completely unpredictable and challenging to dose and enjoy compared to smoking or vaping.

Re: Cannabis use and myocardial infarction in young adults: a cross-sectional study

#120

Post by dqpb »

zerobits wrote: post #18

It’s strange that all of the comments are looking for ways to dismiss this result (and this seems to happen generally with negative cannabis findings online). Is it not entirely possible a drug and method of consumption which stresses the cardiovascular system increases odds of an adverse cardiovascular event?

It’s common sense that inhaling smoke is bad for you. If you defy common sense, you’re unlikely to suddenly embrace the logic of a scientific study.
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