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It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

thehill.com

401–410 of 427 posts

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call a "five-alarm fire" is people getting nice large raises.

I went to get lunch with my brother. We had to go to four restaurants before we found one with an open dining room. I went to the grocery store a couple of days ago. They one register and a bank of self-checkout open at 5 PM. The lines were 20 carts deep. My daughters school is doing rotating classroom closings, not because of covid but because they can’t hire teachers. My Amazon shipments have ballooned from 1-2 to…

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all of those problems could be alleviated by gasp paying workers a living wage, with schedules that allow one to have a life outside of work.

What's laughable is the absolute privilege of treating the worker class like the slaves they are and demanding they take what is offered.

Coincidentally the income inequality is the highest ever as well- but of course that couldn't be part of the problem.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how are they paying rent Do you count an eviction moratorium as a handout?

Absolutely I do.

What about the PPP loans every company took and used it to pay the owners while laying off/firing their workforce, was that not a handout?

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#403

It's amazing how business seems to understand the free market when it's selling to customers, but can't seem figure out the free market when it comes to hiring labor.

the government distorting the labor market with increased unemployment benefits isn't the free market Especially when unemployment increased due to government mandated shutdowns

Government distorting the labor market by keeping businesses open which should have closed with PPP loans (grants) isn't a free market.

Do you not remember the signs saying 'support your local restaurants'? As if they are somehow entitled to money, but the people fired from those places do not.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#404
post #339
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5k is a lot in Kazakhstan. (Just noticed the username)

It is not actually, about $416 per month or 176k tenge (local currency) per month. A cook in Almaty, KZ can make between 170-350k according to the local job board https://almaty.hh.kz/search/vacancy?st=searchVacancy&L_profe... EDIT: Not saying its nothing, good money but to call it a lot would be an overstretch imho

No, but 5k in Kazakhstan tells a completely different story than 5k in the US.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before we left San Diego I offered quite a few times to go in, unpaid, to help out. This man works 6 days a week, open to close. I don’t know what sort of upbringing people on this site seem to have but it doesn’t feel “working class” to me most of the time.

>what sort of upbringing people on this site seem to have but it doesn’t feel “working class” to me most of the time Some people around these parts have ardently defended that 100k USD is poverty wage and that having a net worth of 1 million doesn't make you rich. So I'm inclined to definitely not believe "working class".

I must have missed those people. People here are in general not poor, but most are neither completely out of touch.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before we left San Diego I offered quite a few times to go in, unpaid, to help out. This man works 6 days a week, open to close. I don’t know what sort of upbringing people on this site seem to have but it doesn’t feel “working class” to me most of the time.

How is he living in San Diego on $416 / mo?

He isn’t, him and his wife earn around 40k total before tax. It’s possible but it isn’t fun. I talk about it elsewhere in the comments. She works as a preschool teacher.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely I do.

What about the PPP loans every company took and used it to pay the owners while laying off/firing their workforce, was that not a handout?

Forgiven loans are surely also a handout, although… the whole point of how the forgiveness was structured was to prevent people from firing or laying off their workers. So I think your comment is based on a false premise.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christ, people here and their taller than standard horses. My girlfriends dad owns a pizza place and walked away with $5k last year, after paying rent, supply and wages. Where do they magically pull this money from? They aren’t evil banker types with bags marked “$$$” full of money like people here seem to think and it is disgusting they’re considered cheap instead of just “people will absolutely not pay the increase…

Small businesses have notoriously high rates of failure, restaurants seem like a huge risk with pretty modest possible reward. My guess is you'd be more likely to get rich being a pro athlete than as a restaurant owner. Yet they get treated like evil "fat cats" by a certain section of the intelligentsia. Many of whom simultaneously believe global mega corporations who profit from wars and dictatorships, avoid paying…

Dang. You need to get off the Internet. These so called "intelligentsia" just doesn't exist.

That is why it is strange to you. They don't exist. They're some boogieman that was made up to scare people like you.

Re: It's not a labor shortage – it's a wage and workers rights shortage

#410
post #12

Painfully obvious too. My little local Mexcian place will be closing down because of a lack of cooks. Talking to the owner, he was complaining about government benefits, and how they all want $20 an hour. I don't understand it, that you'd either a) be willing to drive your business into the ground serving a limited menu because you won't hire a couple cooks at $20 an hour, or b) have a business so close to the brink…

One has to have a rudimentary understanding of business in order to understand the realities of a forced high minimum wage. Restaurants and manufacturing operations can’t do not operate in a distortion field where external realities do not matter.

In the case of the restaurant, what they are able to charge for their product is governed by myriad variables, some of which are: location, competitive landscape (how many, distance, kind, etc.), audience dynamics (breakfast and lunch crowd or spread across the day and evening), etc.

Competition drives both prices and margins down. Once an area has reached price stability, it is very hard to raise prices. So, you are selling a burger for $10 and, if you are lucky, you make $2 to $3 on it. Depending on the nature of the organization, delivering burgers might require 5 to 10 people.

Along come politicians pandering for votes and push for a 50% increase in minimum wage.

This increase causes a chain reaction through the entire wage structure. The guy making $10/hr now makes $15. Someone making $15 makes $20, and so on.

Most people don’t stop to do a bit of math and understand reality before accusing business people of being evil, greedy, or both.

What ends up happening is that the thin margins and realities of the market can’t support the delta in cost structure. The business either controls costs or shuts down.

How do you control costs?

Less people doing more or less people and automation. A few more options, but that’s the basic idea.

In other words, the politicians get the votes and continue on their sweet power ride. Those who voted for them lose their jobs. A bunch of the businesses who created jobs shutter. Fantastic deal, isn’t it?

I am in the process of setting-up a manufacturing operation to produce up to 100K of our products per month. We want to manufacture in the US. The ONLY WAY this is even remotely possible is through automation. We are explicitly designing both the product and the manufacturing process for as close as we can get to lights-out manufacturing. We cannot afford hordes of people at $15/hr. The only alternative is to go to China, Taiwan, Mexico or other shores. That’s the reality we have created for ourselves through what I can only describe as ignorant voting decisions that only benefit politicians.

Everything we use in manufacturing comes from China. We can either understand this reality and think of creative way not to lose even more job-generating industries or we can continue to be led by the nose by politicians with no skin in the game and one day wake up and think “What happened?” without realizing we did it to ourselves.

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