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SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

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Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#51

Post by mkl »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #19

3 days in space means that there must be facilities for eating, and toilet facilities. Are these detailed anywhere?

Well that was a ridiculous rabbit-hole to go down. No one seems to know complete details, but here are some articles with information: https://www.space.com/spacex-crew-dragon-space-toilet-myster..., https://www.slashgear.com/spacex-crew-dragon-for-the-all-civ... (360 degree views while using it!?), https://www.digitaltrends.com/news/spacexs-crew-dragon-to-ge..., https://www.businessinsider.com.au/spacex-crew-dragon-spaces...

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#52

Post by tellersid »

mkl wrote: post #24
mattlondon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is, this is the first "private" space mission that wasn't using government/military hardware or staff. It is a rocket designed by a commercial company, flying people who just made a few calls and then paid to do it. It is pretty wild when you think about it - not so long ago (10 years maybe?) this sort of thing would have been unthinkable . Say what you will about Elon Musk, but you've got to g…

> It is pretty wild when you think about it - not so long ago (10 years maybe?) this sort of thing would have been unthinkable . 10 years ago many people thought it would happen well before 2021. The "first operational Dragon spacecraft was launched in December 2010" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX ) and commercial flights to the ISS were right around the corner (cargo first happened May 2012).

I remember going to Disney Epcot Center as a kid and it showed how we would be living on the ocean floor by the year 2000. That is what I consider wild.

If you told me as a kid that I will go my whole life without owning a robot and that the main difference is we will replace a rotary phone with a hand held phone I would want my money back.

I guess poor Christa McAuliffe has been totally forgot about also.

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#53

Post by Galaxity »

areoform wrote: post #45

We have crossed the rubicon. Hayley Arceneaux will become the first individual with a prosthesis to go to space. In the 60 year history of crewed spaceflight, we have never put a human with titanium bones in orbit. Nor, have we sent anyone up who has met any of the requirements to be otherwise classified as "disabled". Until now. It is the indicator of a profound tipping point. The very first astronauts were required…

> Thank you, Elon and Axiom Space.

For clarification. This flight is not operated by Axiom Space. The commander, Jason Isaacman, purchased the flight directly from SpaceX.

Axiom Space's first mission will be in January 2022.

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#54

Post by mensetmanusman »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #11
mattlondon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is, this is the first "private" space mission that wasn't using government/military hardware or staff. It is a rocket designed by a commercial company, flying people who just made a few calls and then paid to do it. It is pretty wild when you think about it - not so long ago (10 years maybe?) this sort of thing would have been unthinkable . Say what you will about Elon Musk, but you've got to g…

When we're drooling over these accomplishments, we should direct more of our praise to the thousands of really, really good engineers who did the work, built on the accumulated experience of millions, over decades. People seem to be very eager to ascribe success to heroic individuals, and while leadership is certainly something remarkable, I think that there is a severe imbalance in who we're thanking for these achie…

Extending the circle of gratitude is certainly a good practice. Don’t forget all the husbands and wives supporting the families of these people either.

When you follow the process, you realize this is an accomplishment of humanity.

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#55

Post by areoform »

Galaxity wrote: post #53
areoform wrote: post #45

We have crossed the rubicon. Hayley Arceneaux will become the first individual with a prosthesis to go to space. In the 60 year history of crewed spaceflight, we have never put a human with titanium bones in orbit. Nor, have we sent anyone up who has met any of the requirements to be otherwise classified as "disabled". Until now. It is the indicator of a profound tipping point. The very first astronauts were required…

> Thank you, Elon and Axiom Space. For clarification. This flight is not operated by Axiom Space. The commander, Jason Isaacman, purchased the flight directly from SpaceX. Axiom Space's first mission will be in January 2022.

Ah good point. I'll update the comment!

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#56

Post by inglor_cz »

immmmmm wrote: post #46
inawarminister wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that the methane/oxygen (methalox?) used in Starship engines can be made carbon-neutral by concentrating the fuel from the atmosphere... And that the same process can be done on Mars too to refuel the rockets. Hopefully that's workable.

you need energy for this to happen

Yes, but it may be "superfluous" energy provided by wind turbines or solar at a moment of very high production when no one is ready to consume it. Turning this energy into something useful is actually a bonus.

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#57

Post by lmilcin »

areoform wrote: post #45

We have crossed the rubicon. Hayley Arceneaux will become the first individual with a prosthesis to go to space. In the 60 year history of crewed spaceflight, we have never put a human with titanium bones in orbit. Nor, have we sent anyone up who has met any of the requirements to be otherwise classified as "disabled". Until now. It is the indicator of a profound tipping point. The very first astronauts were required…

Aren't you overhyping it a little bit? Crossing the Rubicon (Rubicon is a river)?

Civilians were being already sent in 1986 (unsuccessfully...) and in 1990 (successfully). What's a difference between a civilian that has or has not a prosthesis? It is not like they are going to be doing some kind of superhuman feats.

They could have sent a disabled person just as well in 1986 if they decided so. If I remember there were even discussions to choose who to send to space to show how routine and safe it is and disabled person was discussed. But in the end they decided to choose woman teacher as better publicity stunt.

The real important differences here are:

1. Falling costs of sending anything to orbit.

2. A business model and a technical plan to keep the costs falling for the foreseeable future.

3. Competition supported by free market.

4. A leader with power, means, plan, drive and ability to execute to achieve great things.

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#58

Post by xoa »

immmmmm wrote: post #43
avian wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All terrestrial transport ideas from SpaceX I've seen involved Starship, not Falcon 9/Dragon. I don't know how that compares with a typical airliner in terms of miles per gallon (probably not much better than Dragon). However Starship runs on methane and that should in theory be easy to produce from atmospheric CO2 and electricity from renewable sources. In any case, I don't think many people took the idea of using S…

be it methane or RP1 you're subjected to the laws of thermodynamics. namely converting CO2 to any of those will require more energy than delivered by your rocket or car. also rocket engines are already some of the most efficient thermal engines available/possible, starship won't change that.

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with the issue of AGW though. For the purposes of warming the planet, direct energy usage and emission by humanity is irrelevant (utterly swamped by solar insolation for starters). What's driving it is our changing the net levels of greenhouse gases and in turn the amount of energy retained vs radiated into space. So what matters for dealing with climate disruption is making sure our activities are greenhouse neutral (and for a while we should go carbon negative), all debates of "efficiency" or "luxury" or whatever are extremely foolish distractions. If everything is greenhouse neutral with associated prices becoming clear than people can figure the rest out from there about where they wish to allocate their extra resources.

SpaceX intends to develop direct atmospheric methane generation from CO2, which they have to do anyway for their Mars plans because that's the only way to do in-situ refueling there (plenty of CO2 in the atmosphere, not exactly a lot of natural gas fields). Taking into account any methane leaks and correcting for its few decades of enhance greenhouse effect before it decomposes to CO2, they certainly could make Starship carbon neutral and if they do it doesn't matter how much "energy" in the abstract it uses beyond price. Solar and wind power have plenty positive power factors.

Worth noting that in principle nothing is special about Starship here, carbon neutral RP1 could be made as well (at a further hit to conversion efficiency and thus price). In practice though green methane is more practical and will amortize better given its use elsewhere in the solar system.

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#59

Post by hoseja »

mauvehaus wrote: post #49
garyclarke27 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virgin Galactic only reached Mach 3 speed and was nowhere near achieving orbital velocity which requires Mach 23 (28,000 kph) ie order of magnitude more difficult.

Serious question: while I understand making the comparison in Mach number to illustrate the difference in speed, is the speed of sound actually well defined near or above the Karman line?

I had no idea either so I asked, apparently it's about 0.85 Mach:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=speed+of+sound+at+100+...

Re: SpaceX cleared for historic civilian launch next week

#60

Post by perilunar »

detritus wrote: post #47
ForHackernews wrote: post #39

> The soon-to-be-astronauts Maybe this is just me, but I think we need a new word for people who pay to take a ride on a spacecraft but have nothing to do with the operation or mission of that spacecraft. "Payload" seems rude, perhaps "passengers"? Whatever they are, they're not astronauts.

The term itself will become meaningless if hundreds, thousands (millions..) of people start lofting into the heavens every year. Fundamentally, these guys have about as much control over their experience as your 'real' astronauts do.

Or conversely, most 'real' astronauts are also 'just' passengers, and only a few ever pilot a spacecraft. I think "Astronaut" is fine for anyone who's been to space, and "pilot" if you fly the spacecraft.
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