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Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

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Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#461

Post by giansegato »

blacklight wrote: post #451

I moved from Gmail to ProtonMail exactly because they were promising strong encryption, no logging of IPs and no data leaked outside for whatever reason. I know that every IT company eventually turns into a bunch of creepy and greedy jerks that end up contradicting all of their initial "don't be evil" statements. But please, Proton, don't do this so early in the process. I'm tired of migrating from one jerk company t…

Get ready to fight against anti spam like crazy, with your own server.

Email is supposedly decentralized, but under the umbrella of "anti spam" it's really an oligopoly of providers

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#462

Post by dheerajvs »

pas wrote: post #194
dheera wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they order to collect someone's data, can't ProtonMail just say "we've been ordered to collect data for a user" on the front page?

It depends on jurisdiction. For example the UK has the infamous gag orders that are even harder to fight in court (successfully) than their US counterparts. Sure, ProtonMail and its current operators could opt to stop operating in such jurisdictions, but usually it's too late for that when you get the [secret] court order, because if you refuse the operators personally are quickly found in contempt of court (or whate…

That's what warrant canaries[0] are for.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#463

Post by nvarsj »

COGlory wrote: post #37

Disclaimer: I have a ProtonMail account that I pay for. I have seen a ton of disturbing pieces about ProtonMail. Every time I've looked into them, they seem to be maliciously motivated and usually not true, or otherwise twisting of the truth. This has been a confusing thing for me because why is there a small subset of people so vehemently against them? In this case, I'm not surprised. They say quite clearly they can…

I couldn't agree more. Anyone that thinks a company can hide/avoid all government (legally mandated) requests is just incredibly naive. I don't know why the anti-protonmail spin exists. Protonmail does the best they can, as far as I can tell, given the legal frameworks that are in place and the modern erosion of privacy.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#464

Post by truthwhisperer »

jraby3 wrote: post #457
istingray wrote: post #77

Disclaimer: Paying Protonmail customer Their homepage says "By default, we do not keep any IP logs" In 2021, any soft language like this should be a red flag for anyone who is against surveillance. Maybe in 2018 it was good enough. But in 2021 it's not. Come on, Protonmail, you're supposed to be leading the way -- don't make me figure it out myself. Replace immediately with "By default we don't log IP, but may be req…

I was COO of a vpn company for several years. It’s almost impossible not to keep any ip info. We had issues with fraud and one of the best ways to prevent or limit it was to track IP address and save it for several months. I agree PM should be more forthright in their messaging but realistically I don’t believe any company that takes payments and doesn’t track any info at all.

maybe you should have been little more creative.

People who have paid a few months in a row or have a good history you don't need to store the actual IP addresses

maybe only the number of used ipaddresses and increase your level of monitoring if the numbers hits a certain threshold

the only reason you store IP address is because of laziness. Fair enough

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#465

Post by jakobdabo »

grappler wrote: post #361
testvox wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do https://protonmail.com/tor

Sad to say, Proton's onion service is for their old version. Proton has recently rolled out a new updated version of their service, and as far as I'm aware they don't offer a Tor onion service for that newer version. So Proton users who like to connect via Tor onion services have been faced with a choice of either staying on the old version of ProtonMail, or giving up on connecting via a Tor onion service. It definit…

I don't think you can use Proton without JS. You need JS for cryptography; the emails get encrypted/decrypted/signed/verified on client-side.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#466

Post by jnsaff2 »

sodality2 wrote: post #327
istingray wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those canary things seem so 2018. In 2021 the most powerful canary statement should be "Don't trust us. Seriously, treat us as an adversary. We still want you to be our customer of course, but here's how we really recommend you use our service, Tor, semi-anonymous payments, etc. In God we trust, for everyone else use math."

That canary statement would kill their userbase. Seriously, who expects a company to admit the value they provide is not much? They expect the more savvy users (ie, those who need the privacy, typically) to understand basic OPSEC. I admit that the marketing is bad, I do not agree with it, and I do not tolerate it in terms of my own OPSEC. But, there's just no way they would just admit they provide hardly any value be…

Not having that canary may LITERALLY kill some of their users. If they have some decency they should own up to the truth and if they end up being out of business they will have a lot of goodwill for their next business.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#467

Post by capeterson »

France_is_bacon wrote: post #397
capeterson wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double FYI, the USPS does sell personal data when you do a change-of-address: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtanner/2013/07/08/how-the-p...

Right. But I'm talking about opening your letters, scanning them into a computer, and selling that information. I personally don't fill out the change of address forms.

Yeah, the USPS cannot open your mail without a warrant, which is a pretty nice assurance to have. That would be pretty bad if it was how you described- all the more reason for us to make sure the USPS stays around :)

Edit: Note, this is a "nice assurance to have" because private shipping companies generally reserve the right to open anything that they are shipping.

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#468

Post by CyanBird »

aloisdg wrote: post #450
jimnotgym wrote: post #427

It always amazes me that there is this hardcore of people on hn who are so anti ProtonMail. If you use gmail, It is my understanding that google ai will routinely read all your messages and add anything interesting to your profile so they can target you for ads. Law enforcement also has open access to everything in your mailbox all of the time. ProtonMail don't read your email but will supply metadata to authorities…

Where can I pay to have my provider say "nope" to the french police force a case like this?

Set up your own encrypted email server

If anyone has specific recommendations for which open source encrypted platforms to set up, I am all ears

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#469

Post by uzakov »

ksaj wrote: post #358
testvox wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do https://protonmail.com/tor

Thanks. I thought they must. https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7... is the URL that people should be using with Tor if they are concerned with being traced. Using Tor to access a regular web site, ie: through an exit node, is (nearly) no different than using a proxy. Just assume all exit nodes are "naughty" and do your thing accordingly.

HN: Be careful when visiting Tor links that are suggested anywhere. There are many malicious clones of popular websites

Re: Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address

#470

Post by sunsetonsaturn »

istingray wrote: post #302
o8r3oFTZPE wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is even defined. There is nothing in this policy that obligates the company to do, or restricts the company from doing, anything. This is the way most tech company "Privacy Policies" are written. There is a significant difference between a statement such as "We (Company) do not do X" versus a promise such as "Company shall not do X" or a statement such as "We do Y. We may do Z" versus a promise such as "Compa…

Solid points. A report card for various privacy policies would be useful. Seen anything like that?

There is a project for bringing relevant privacy facts closer to users, so they can make informed decisions before choosing to buy a specific product or service. Check out the second screenshot on this page: http://privacy-facts.eu/features/

The idea is to express everything in unambiguous terms, so there's no way to weasel out of it with "yeah, but not by default" or, "well, it depends", etc.

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