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Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

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Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#31

Post by slimsag »

zapita wrote: post #30
slimsag wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks more like the Podman version of Docker Desktop (which is closed source, and no longer free), effectively, as it's handling the virtualization aspects for you according to[0]. [0] https://twitter.com/simnalamburt/status/1434244533001224192

The Docker CLI is also available for Mac, and is open-source.

Does that handle virtualization for you like this does? Is it distributed pre-built anywhere?

I honestly looked just now and couldn't find anything.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#33

Post by infogulch »

SilverRed wrote: post #10
infogulch wrote: post #6

Tangentially, I wonder if Moby underestimated the amount of human hours that were instantly allocated to alternatives as soon as they announced Docker Desktop was going paid. (I don't know if this project is a consequence of that announcement or not.) Hopefully Podman will be able to capitalize on this event and get the polish needed for widespread use.

I suspect the push for podman was more about how docker ignored CGroupsV2 for so long that Fedora eventually turned it on anyway which broke docker and then told users to switch to podman.

I hadn't heard about CGroupsV2. Apparently it's been in the kernel since 2015. Seems like a better design.

https://thenewstack.io/linux-cgroups-v2-brings-rootless-cont...

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/cgroup-v2...

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#34

Post by takeda »

jamesfinlayson wrote: post #17
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #11

Is there anyway to make docker-style Darwin containers?

I don't think Mac/Darwin has cgroups but it's based on BSD to it might have jails?

A lot of people assume that, but it's only partially true.

Darwin's userland is taken from FreeBSD, the kernel is from NeXTSTEP, although it also borrowed some things from FreeBSD, but I don't think they incorporated jails[1].

[1] https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu/search?q=jail

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#35

Post by The_Colonel »

slimsag wrote: post #26
ur-whale wrote: post #24

> the open source Docker alternative I was under the impression that docker was open source. I am mistaken?

Docker Desktop (the software people must use to run Docker under any Mac or Windows machines) is closed source.

... and podman is not an alternative for Docker Desktop.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#36

Post by kodah »

zapita wrote: post #29

Calling podman “the open-source docker alternative” is disingenuous. The Docker engine which it competes with is also open-source. The only closed Docker product is their desktop wrapper, for which podman is not an alternative. Podman people, you’re better than this.

This has little or nothing to do with "podman people". The stuff people are talking about in the top comments have everything to do with people (and corporations) trying to figure out how to run podman efficiently on MacOS. It certainly can be done by bundling QEMU or through a VM.

Second, Docker Desktop for MacOS and Windows are not open source, hence this repository is empty: https://github.com/docker/for-win

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#37

Post by qwerty456127 »

Planning to buy a new MacBook for a family member I have some question to whoever is into the Apple wold: is that true that the next generation of MacBooks is going to have classic Esc&F# buttons, MagSafe, SD card reader and HDMI? When is it expected to be released? How is a MacBookPro better than a MacBookAir of the same specs (RAM&SSD)? We were going to buy a new MacBook now but the classic parts returning sound really motivating to wait.

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#38

Post by konradkpl »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #37

Planning to buy a new MacBook for a family member I have some question to whoever is into the Apple wold: is that true that the next generation of MacBooks is going to have classic Esc&F# buttons, MagSafe, SD card reader and HDMI? When is it expected to be released? How is a MacBookPro better than a MacBookAir of the same specs (RAM&SSD)? We were going to buy a new MacBook now but the classic parts returning sound re…

We don't know anything for sure, only rumors: https://www.macrumors.com/guide/14-inch-macbook-pro/

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#39

Post by slimsag »

The_Colonel wrote: post #35
slimsag wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker Desktop (the software people must use to run Docker under any Mac or Windows machines) is closed source.

... and podman is not an alternative for Docker Desktop.

... sure seems like it is: this handles QEMU setup/teardown with hardware virtualization support through Hypervisor.framework according to[0].

[0] https://twitter.com/simnalamburt/status/1434244533001224192

Re: Podman, the open source Docker alternative ported to M1 (Apple Silicon) machines

#40

Post by lostlogin »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #20
jamesfinlayson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Mac/Darwin has cgroups but it's based on BSD to it might have jails?

So my somewhat shaky understanding is that Apple does have some form of jails in Darwin, because they use it on iOS (hence, "jailbreaking"), but for some reason doesn't ship it in desktop Darwin (aka macOS).

> Apple does have some form of jails in Darwin

Thinking about the names Apple might call this tech is amusing, with their use of ‘me’ ‘I’ ‘Apple’ etc. I assume ‘Jail’ wouldn’t be in the name.

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