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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, it appears to be a woke idea that mathematics, science is some human (more specifically, white) invention and we should explore “alternative mathematics” or “alternative science”. Do you have a source for this? I’ve never heard of either of these terms, the closest being the “alternative facts” of one of Trump’s press secretaries.

https://equitablemath.org/

Which part of their FAQ intro do you disagree with?

> For decades, America’s schools have tried and failed to close gaps on math test scores between White students and students of color. That’s not because math discriminates by race, and it’s not because some groups of students are inherently more suited to math. It’s because we give students of color and students from lower-income families the least access to critical resources, from the most qualified teachers to the best technology to the most advanced courses. And it’s because instructional materials and practices—even good ones—are influenced by culture and perspective.

> When we think narrowly about teaching math, we create barriers for students; we allow them to fall into the trap of thinking they’re “not a math person.” But the truth is we can all be “math people.” The goal of “A Pathway to Equitable Mathematics Instruction” is to engage as many students as possible in not just solving math problems but understanding math concepts so they can apply them across a wide range of real-world applications. Math problems, of course, have correct answers. But students can arrive at the right answer without understanding the bigger concept or they can have an “aha” moment when they see why they got an answer wrong.

> The toolkit was written by educators, and it doesn’t tell teachers how to do their job—it asks them to think about how they do it. For example, when we ask students to show their work, we should think about how and why. The point should be to have a dialogue about their process and their learning, not require every student to follow the exact same path to the right answer. A child of immigrants might have learned a different way to solve a problem because that’s how their parents were taught where they grew up. If we just tell that student their way is the wrong way, we risk turning them off to math for life. If we take the opportunity to explore why there are different ways to approach the same problem, it can be a learning moment for the entire class

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#882
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually they have no idea how Eastern European cultures are, less Russia. They would stick out like a sore thumb, they would be shunned, treated with distance for being foreigners. Being 'christian' wouldnt do literally sh*t. The only places where they would be getting treated normally would be ironically places with more woke Russians - ie Russian liberals, educated, woke people. Who would not shun others for b…

> They would stick out like a sore thumb, they would be shunned, treated with distance for being foreigners. Being 'christian' wouldnt do literally sh*t. I agree. In fact I think that their religion would only serve to exacerbate things since (unless I'm very wrong) Russians are largely Orthodox Catholics and these people are largely protestant and evangelical

Yep. They have no idea how great the divide in between Orthodox and other branches of Christianity is. Even muslims are more normalized in Orthodox regions since they have been living side by side for ~1000 years. And Protestanism, Evangelicals etc? They are much more 'further out' than these right wingers realize.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#883
post #669

It's just a shift from older, less flexible values like family, church etc to the more open minded approach, "do as you like". Nothing wrong with people having tattoos everywhere, green or violet hair, non conformist clothing and views. Let them be, let them express and find themselves. I am the shave every day suit kinda guy and will remain so, but if someone chooses to be different or wants to complain about new wo…

Unfortunately this laissez fair approach is the exact opposite of modern wokeness. It’s their way or it’s attacks and cancellation. If you’re an oppressor class you have almost no way to be forgiven. The easiest way to show this is just ask some woke stars on their views of libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves.

Unfortunately “let everyone be themselves” is very far from modern libertarianism in practice. “Libertarian” has become a label for people who want to argue in bad faith for conservative positions while claiming to not be conservative or republican. Ask almost anybody that claims to be libertarian if they support the eradication of state/national borders, freedom to carry out an abortion at any stage of pregnancy or any other idea that runs counter to current republican talking points and you’ll quickly see through the facade of their libertarian label.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#884
post #770

I think people are over-analysing this issue here at HN. It is far better for upper class to ensure that people discuss and focus on issues like gender and skin colour than the class differences. Hence, they ensured that this is the issue plebs would hear all over on the media and shift their attention from class divides to gender and skin colour.

These two paragraphs from Glen greenwald are my favorite and very relevant to your post: “But they [GCHQ] want you to know that they absolutely adore gay people. In fact, they love the cause of LGBT equality so very much that, beginning on May 17, 2015 — International Day against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia — they started draping their creepy, UFO-style headquarters in the colors of the rainbow flag. The pri…

It’s a strongly expressed opinion that isn’t necessarily supported by evidence. Do you know of any statistical or anecdotal evidence? I personally don’t know anyone who changed their opinion of GCHQ for better because of their support of LGBT. I don’t agree that it’s so easy to draw such conclusions and exclaim “sure they spy on us but look at their flamboyant support of social justice”.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#885

What exactly is the goal of the 'woke' as it pertains to race or gender? If success to them looks like an equal number of white/black/asian/women it's an unreachable goal. According to the 2020 census: 57.8% of Americans are white, 16.3% are hispanic, 12.2% are black, and 5.9% are asian. It seems as plain as day that even if we could remove racism from the equation, it's more likely that whites will make up more shar…

To begin with, no reasonable person is saying there should be a completely even balance in proportions of race in any field, for exactly the reasons you point out. The problem is that in reality, certain "merit-based" programs such as workplaces or colleges don't also align with the racial demographics of the general public, and it's a discrepancy that should make you ask "why?". The problem with a blind "merit-based…

> The hard part about this is that it comes off as saying that you should treat people differently because of their race. And that's pretty much what it is. It would require some level of sacrifice by the privileged, at least temporarily, in order to bring everybody back to equal footing.

Isn’t that what affirmative action was supposed to be? Why stop at race? Why not with other physical attributes? Why not force NBA teams to hire short people, same goes for the NHL with their goalies, modeling companies with short/fat/old/unattractive people? People have attributes that give them advantages $ disadvantages. You can’t make everything fair.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, it appears to be a woke idea that mathematics, science is some human (more specifically, white) invention and we should explore “alternative mathematics” or “alternative science”. Do you have a source for this? I’ve never heard of either of these terms, the closest being the “alternative facts” of one of Trump’s press secretaries.

While not necessarily being “woke”, any research tradition that identifies with post-positivism [1] tends to reject the traditional scientific method and proposes new ways to reach “scientific truth”. There are many post-positivist research traditions in many fields that you will be able to look up and read more about if you are interested in specific citations and authors that do this kind of work. [1]: https://en.m…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpositivism

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#887

I think people are over-analysing this issue here at HN. It is far better for upper class to ensure that people discuss and focus on issues like gender and skin colour than the class differences. Hence, they ensured that this is the issue plebs would hear all over on the media and shift their attention from class divides to gender and skin colour.

It’s convenient that under wokeness, the real bad guys are my white in laws in rural Oregon and not the white people “doing the work” in Wall Street and SV.

I'll give you Wall Street, but SV is very much a target of this Neo-Maoist craziness. And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of interesting problems wrt. how to improve diversity and equity in the industry, but politicized catchphrases like "there's no such thing as meritocracy" (a prime example of Orwellian duckspeak if there ever was one) are not conducive to this goal.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#888

I think people are over-analysing this issue here at HN. It is far better for upper class to ensure that people discuss and focus on issues like gender and skin colour than the class differences. Hence, they ensured that this is the issue plebs would hear all over on the media and shift their attention from class divides to gender and skin colour.

It’s convenient that under wokeness, the real bad guys are my white in laws in rural Oregon and not the white people “doing the work” in Wall Street and SV.

I highly doubt many “woke” people would agree with you and call an unknown white family in Oregon—and not Zuckerberg—“the real bad guys” .

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#889
post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two paragraphs from Glen greenwald are my favorite and very relevant to your post: “But they [GCHQ] want you to know that they absolutely adore gay people. In fact, they love the cause of LGBT equality so very much that, beginning on May 17, 2015 — International Day against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia — they started draping their creepy, UFO-style headquarters in the colors of the rainbow flag. The pri…

It’s a strongly expressed opinion that isn’t necessarily supported by evidence. Do you know of any statistical or anecdotal evidence? I personally don’t know anyone who changed their opinion of GCHQ for better because of their support of LGBT. I don’t agree that it’s so easy to draw such conclusions and exclaim “sure they spy on us but look at their flamboyant support of social justice”.

To give you the perfect example, I think all the types of people who were protesting (100% correctly) at the Occupy Wall Street movements have been completely neutered and neutralised with this woke movement in corporations.

These bankers and banks basically destroyed the american dream like no other person/corporation in history, they did more damage to minorities than any "white oppressor", yet they've basically been forgotten because activists types feel like they can make a difference by introducing trans issues into corporations. No, you didn't. The same crooked billionaires are syphoning off even more cash, not to mention the government is now printing money for them to socialise their losses.

I have to congratulate these corporations, it's been the perfect divide and conquer tactic. Almost everyone's forgotten the 2008 crises, who caused it, and what damage it did.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s convenient that under wokeness, the real bad guys are my white in laws in rural Oregon and not the white people “doing the work” in Wall Street and SV.

I highly doubt many “woke” people would agree with you and call an unknown white family in Oregon—and not Zuckerberg—“the real bad guys” .

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