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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#321

I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender. Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already. Language is constantly changing. As long as references…

In English, we often use the word Latin with no gender suffix (as in the term Latin Americans). As I understand, Latinx is not an attempt to be gender-neutral but gender-inclusive and language-inclusive (as Latin lacks the gender suffix used in Spanish and Portuguese, and Latino/a excludes French-speaking Haitians).

Hispanic is also gender-neutral, and is probably what most people intend when they say Latin or Latino/a or Latinx. Hispano would be the Spanish word, but has never been a household word in the US. You can find some advocates of Hispanx, but I don't expect it to catch on.

The biggest problem IMO with Latinx is how to pronounce it. The letter X is not pronounced the same in Spanish as it is in English.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#322
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to go deep down the rabbit hole here, break your brain, probably ruin your career and seriously damage your ability to interact with woke culture ever again, you can listen to an interview with the author of the book, "The Transgender Industrial Complex" in which the author alleges with copious documentation that the transgender movement is complete astroturf. He did deep research to discover where the tr…

What you describe as "fascinating" is just a crazy conspiracy theory. The link you give also just throws homosexuality and bisexuality in there as well and while not exactly saying that all those things are "unhealthy for a society" basically alledges this in the first few sentences.

These guys interviewing him are right-wing Christians, who are the only people who would ever interview this guy, as he wouldn't get past the woke filter on just about any other podcast, so you'll just have to accept that they're going to have that point of view to begin with.

The guy has a lot of documentation for where this all came from out of nowhere. I bought the book and it's fascinating how much documentation the guy has on how the whole thing got astroturfed in no time. I don't know how old you are, but before the early 2000s, the only place that I ever encountered "transexuals" was in San Francisco sex clubs. Then all of a sudden, in the span of less than 10 years they're everywhere. How the heck did that all happen? Reading through his research is a really interesting deep dive into how to bootstrap a radical cultural change from scratch.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#324
These kinds of social movements always arouse the armchair anthropologist in me. This one in particular, because I think it has to do a lot with the rise of social media.

My theory is, what people might refer to as a "woke discourse" has been going on forever in left and progressive activist spaces, like certain parts of academia, political organizations and so on. Within those subcultures, there has for a long time been a strong emphasis on fairness, which is often enforced through a set of cultural and linguistic tools which have evolved over the years to identify and correct words and actions which fall outside the boundaries of what is considered acceptable or desirable in those communities.

So then came social medial platforms. Now you have forums like Twitter where suddenly everyone's conversations are out in the open. Now instead of pointing out perceived social problems and inequities over a lunch table at Oberlin, members of these subcultures are having that conversation in view of the whole world. And instead of reacting only to their own communities and media environment, they're also responding directly to problematic phrasing from some guy in rural Nebraska which left-wing students at elite universities polished out of their language years ago.

So you have this confluence of a social technology which had been developed for ages, and a communications technology which happened to be a very effective vehicle for what was probably quite a minority viewpoint to have a vastly outsized impact on society.

I actually think this concept of having one big conversation that everyone can be a part of is something we haven't even really began to wrap our arms around, and it will be interesting to see what online discourse looks like in a few decades.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#325
post #147

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

What do you reckon is the reason for the increase in gay kids in the west after the decriminalization of homosexuality in most western countries? Hint: it's the decriminalization and social acceptance allowing gay people to come out of the closet rather than having to pretend they're straight for fear of consequences. The kids aren't being transed. I know there are several mostly British authors having extremely loud…

> And social acceptance is the biggest contributor to reducing suicidality

That’s not the proper way to treat depression. No amount of social acceptance will lower the suicide rates of people with mis/untreated depression.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#326
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not necessary though, simply because grammatical gender is not social gender. There are a thousand ways to conceal the gender of someone in Spanish - refer to "la persona" (always feminine, no matter if you're referring to a man), plurify (the plural will take the masculine for mixed groups), so goes on. Or even, you know, use the default grammatical masculine, like the RAE recommends? Granted the RAE is a bu…

Spanish blurs the line between non-personal pronouns and determiners, so two things might happen: either the word "defaults" to the masculine, or it's actually being used as a determiner, with the noun omitted - then it gets the gender of the omitted noun. A bunch of them are also genderless, such as "quién" [who], "cual" [which], etc.

What I mostly meant was that if the verb distinguishes gender (in Slavic languages, this is a feature of the past tense), then these pronouns impart the masculine on the verb. But now that I look at Spanish verb tenses, it's apparently not the case that the past participle in the predicate expresses the gender of the clause subject. If there's a different situation where this could arise, nothing readily comes to my mind.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#327
It's just a shift from older, less flexible values like family, church etc to the more open minded approach, "do as you like". Nothing wrong with people having tattoos everywhere, green or violet hair, non conformist clothing and views. Let them be, let them express and find themselves.

I am the shave every day suit kinda guy and will remain so, but if someone chooses to be different or wants to complain about new woke culture values , fine by me.

There's not more or less trans and gay people these days, they are just more visible and have a voice, as they won't be burned at a stake anymore, metaphorically speaking.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#328
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thing on linkedin.

>> It definitely seems as though specifying your preferred gender pronouns is no longer optional. This is required "in solidarity". Being an otherwise progressive person, I don't feel great about this and how quickly it happened. > Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thing on linkedin. I've started…

I would love to have more pronouns in signatures. I cannot count the times I used Google picture search to figure out the gender of students from cultures I am not well educated about (Chinese, Indian, Arabic, Vietnamese ...). Many foreign students adopted a western name to mitigate such problems. Yikes!

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#329
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preempting downvotes, because you know your comment is not acceptable to the majority, feels like a very cynical device designed to limit that behaviour.

I'd be cautious about referring to what is acceptable to the "majority" and claiming that the concept receives a broad support, as in reality it seems that it's quite the opposite.

I suppose it depends whether you're making the comment in a community where the majority are cis gendered men or not.

And furthermore, if you weren't expecting the majority to disagree you've just certified the comment as disingenuous anyway.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#330

I don't really see the big issue with Latinx... it seems to me an easy and correct way to refer to latinos and latinas, without saying both, or one or the other, or bringing in gender. Just like we don't have Asianas and Asianos, and we can simply say Asians. It makes less sense to add an s to Latin because Latins refers to something completely different already. Language is constantly changing. As long as references…

So this thread introduced me to the idea of "latinx" and now I wish I had never heard of it. What a ridiculous concept and a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
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