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U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#81

Post by lbotos »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #56
gfodor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The viability standard of Roe v Wade is not about personhood but about physical dependency. In other words, it’s not murder, and is ethical, to pull the plug on someone who’s hooked to your body to survive, if there is no other way to save them. This is a very enlightened stance imo, and inductively implies abortion will one day be both illegal and in low demand.

Does this imply then that, let's say a mother was in a position where breastfeeding her child was the only way the child would survive (in the wilderness for some reason, for example), that she should be acquitted if she refused to do so and the child died? The baby needed to be hooked on her body to survive.

IANAL, but the word you are looking for is intent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_(criminal_law)

If it's clear the mother went to the woods to create this environment to kill the child, then a state could consider prosecuting.

If there was a plane crash and it was clear that the mother was distraught and this was a side effect of the crash, I don't think most states with prosecute, but again, depends on the state.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#82

Post by the__alchemist »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14
collegeburner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is really a very simple issue, those who say it is about "regulating women" attack a straw man. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder of the baby. This trumps a woman's right for a medical procedure. So the question about whether it's a private medical choice or an issue of bodily autonomy doesn't even enter into the discussion. There are laws against murdering someone other ways that restrict bodily au…

In which case it's very simple: Is a fetus/embryo a baby or not? And what is the logical conclusion of that?

But it's not! Your simply-posted question has no simple answer. Categorization of "is this a baby" works well when deciding if a 1-year old is a baby (yes); if a rock is a baby (no). Is a 2 year old? Is a fetus? The "baby" categorization is unsuitable for this.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#83

Post by beaner »

emeraldd wrote: post #29
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case it's very simple: Is a fetus/embryo a baby or not? And what is the logical conclusion of that?

>Is a fetus a baby or not? The question seems to be: "When is a fetus considered a separate life?" or perhaps "When does a fetus become a baby?" That's a lot harder to define than you might think. (At least that's the argument ...) Pro-life people tend to see a cut and dried answer to that, where Pro-Choice people tend see it as a bit more ambiguous.

The cynic in me believes that the ambiguity is intentional, because it allows us as adults to have a greater ability to escape the consequences of our actions. (Excepting rape, etc.)

I'm pro-choice, it just seems like a truth people don't want to acknowledge.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#84

Post by dfee »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #8
Bostonian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The red states being pilloried for supposedly restrictive voting laws do not generally have more restrictions than blue states such as New York. The critics are motivated by a desire to discredit Republicans rather than a general interest in voting rights.

> supposedly restrictive voting laws do not generally have more restrictions than blue states such as New York Can you give any examples to support this? We have no ID requirement, no questions asked mail-in ballots, early voting, and paper ballots. The Texas law isn’t all bad. Recording vote counting, paper trails and regulating the removal of voters from rolls is good policy. But the restrictions on early voting an…

Here are those limits: https://www.votetexas.gov/faq/early-voting.html

They really don’t seem draconian to me.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#85

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

WanderPanda wrote: post #27
samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

Human rights are a binary thing: either you are a human and you have them, or you are not a human and you don't have them. IMO it all comes down to when we define the bag of cells to be a human being. Once the bag of cells is a human being murdering it is obviously a crime. IMO any view point between the first cells are already a human being to it becoming a human at birth are valid. Why not settle this in a referend…

Is it an interesting way of looking at things. It certainly helps to explain why some people have a need to first 'dedumanize' a victim by attaching an appropriate label to ensure that what they are doing is not done to a human being. It is an interesting idea, but I am not sure it is accurate depiction of reality.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#86

Post by caconym_ »

samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

> However, the recent stuff - abortion and voting rights being eroded - has just knocked me sideways. I'd have said they were un-American. Now, I don't know what to think. I really mean this. Was I always wrong?

Anti-abortionism has always been a core pillar of the GOP's social policy because it's highly popular with the religious demographics that make up much of their base, even people who might otherwise not vote for them (e.g. some Catholics). After a Republican president had the chance to seat 3 judges, it's logical that red states would start a war against Roe v. Wade. We saw this coming as soon as Trump got his second SCOTUS judge, and when RBG died the writing was on the wall.

No matter how strongly I feel about abortion, the election stuff is more acutely concerning after seeing the degree to which powerful state- and local-level politicians were willing to kowtow to Trump and repeat his baseless lies in the fallout from the 2020 election. These are political hacks with zero regard for the integrity of our electoral process, and with some changes to local election law (like we've been seeing across the country, predicated on lies about election fraud), they may just accomplish in 2024 what they were trying to do in 2020. I would call it a relatively new trend, and it is fucking frightening. They are learning that the more they corrupt the process, the less anybody is able to hold them to account, and their mendacity and depravity seem to know no bounds.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#88

Post by moxzyros »

samizdis wrote: post #3

"Looking at the abortion law, or the gun law, or the voting law, it's a form of vigilante justice, where you're empowering individuals to enforce the law," said Tyson Tuttle, the CEO of Austin-based Silicon Laboratories (SLAB.O). "It's been a rough week in Texas and a harbinger of what's to come across the country." I'm from across the pond, and have spent limited time in the US - none of it in Texas - but I always t…

What you probably don't realize is how culturally diverse America is, maybe more so than any other country. The thinking and culture varies wildly. Rural Texas could not be more different than urban California.

I care deeply about rights, but I suppose I cannot count myself among the enlightened; I cannot condone abortion since there is no way to ascertain beyond reasonable doubt that the unborn are not sentient people. And in my opinion, showing an ID to vote is just reasonable considering all it's other uses.

Erosion of rights in America is occurring recently through draconian executive orders that mandate behavior without due process. If Texas passes a law through due process, that's your problem not theirs. I don't mean to surmise what across the pond means, but if you're looking for dramatic erosion of rights look to Australia.

Re: U.S. companies lash out at Texas law changes, including abortion ban

#90

Post by s5300 »

ivnubinas wrote: post #73
s5300 wrote: post #25

Those who enact law against abortion should have to Google "trisomy 13 cyclops" (warning: NSFL) on a large projector in public and have their reactions broadcast. I can't even find the worst image in an older case study I'm thinking of right now, but damn has Google images of it gotten worse since I last looked. Some life is simply incompatible with life.

Genuine question: Is that an argument for abortion only on extreme circumstances or for abortion in general?

It is with regards to their view of any abortion being flat out murder. Which is the side that a large amount of the older religious populace falls on.

In essence, you can in fact get some of them to agree with the things like abortions in extreme circumstances such as trisomy 13, but then they're just being hypocrites, because they earlier stated that any abortion is murder. In the end, they show their true colors of mostly just wanting to control women and minorities, and the politicians just keeping a downtrodden and uneducated voter base that they can dangle a "vote for me and I'll help you" carrot in front of for life.

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