How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#721

Post by gavinray » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:06 PM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #544

eweise wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last job we were all highly encouraged by the CEO to add our preferred pronouns to our profiles. Just another reason I left.

That seems like a good thing for the trans and nonbinary employees at your former workplace.

Why is this getting downvoted?

This is a legitimate issue, and I'm not even the political/social-justice type.

(I don't mean the company forcing putting pronouns in your username, but for trans/non-binary people to put it in their profile name)

Had an instance at a job once where someone joined, I spoke with them and they were really nice + helpful. Maybe 2 months later, I went looking for them and they didn't seem to be at the company anymore.

Turns out they had changed their username to another gender along with profile pic, now used a different pronoun.

I felt like an ass when I read back to intros and learned that they didn't prefer the pronouns their name/pic implied when they joined. Quite literally "assumed their gender" and they never corrected me about it. Hope it didn't bug them, but it probably did.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#722

Post by h2odragon » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #249

I really think this kind of content is probably bad for hackernews discourse and should be flagged.

Despite all the flames; there's plenty of actual honest "this is what I think and why" that wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere because its a controversial topic. That's worthy.

It may not be pleasant now, but perhaps its the fertilizer from which some flowers of enlightenment will sprout.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#723

Post by colinmhayes » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

babyshake wrote: post #28

It definitely seems as though specifying your preferred gender pronouns is no longer optional. This is required "in solidarity". Being an otherwise progressive person, I don't feel great about this and how quickly it happened.

Legitimately who cares? It's not like you have to sacrifice anything by just saying you'd like to be called he or whatever. It's an incredibly easy thing to do.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#724

Post by shlant » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

karmelapple wrote: post #488

FiberBundle wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some, even most, of the goals of that movement are commendable, with the exception of the more idealistic goals such as equality of outcome. What I find worrying, however, are the tactics that are used to accomplish those goals. I find it hard to understand how people do not see how discriminating against other people because of their views is not the right approach to solve discrimination.

Do you have a few concrete examples of large groups strongly advocating for equality of outcomes? I’ve had discussions about “equality” with folks aligned across the political spectrum, and most everyone agrees they want equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. I’m confused about who or what group is speaking about people desiring equality of outcome. And discriminating against other people because of their…

It does seem that the "equality of outcome" criticism mostly is coming from spaces inhabited and informed by people like Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager. From what I have seen it is mostly used as a strawman because, as you mentioned, I too have not really seen anyone seriously arguing for equality of outcomes (if anyone has examples, please share).

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#725

Post by beerandt » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #671

FiberBundle wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some, even most, of the goals of that movement are commendable, with the exception of the more idealistic goals such as equality of outcome. What I find worrying, however, are the tactics that are used to accomplish those goals. I find it hard to understand how people do not see how discriminating against other people because of their views is not the right approach to solve discrimination.

I was recently thinking about why I was so annoyed at wokism, and was trying to figure out what annoyed me about a movement that shares many of my values. I realized exactly what you mention, that equality of outcome leads to what is basically good old discrimination, except the group that's discriminated against is different now. At some level, I'm disappointed that we've progressed so much in the last few decades,…

They also value things, in practice, that are entirely contrary to what they claim to value.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#726

Post by BEEdwards » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

busymom0 wrote: post #662

BEEdwards wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I went to a very white, quite red Virginia public school 30 years ago and nobody ever told me about brown skin being bad. Then you got very very lucky. It has been an issue for a very long time. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/09/coloris... it was a problem long before the modern era. https://www.naacpldf.org/ldf-celebrates-60th-anniversary-bro... Preparing kids for the real world seems like a good…

I am brown and I can’t believe what the western countries are doing with going back to racial segregation days. Instead of teaching everyone to work hard snd accomplish hard things, they are being taught that they can’t achieve hard things because the boogeyman is stopping them. Victimhood doesn’t help kids. Even the most successful black and brown people like Lebron James who achieved what they did via working hard…

Got it, acknowledging that racism exists is the same as racism...

I mean it's not like people with ethnic names have to whiten them to get job opportunities.

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes...

or home appraisals double when someone conceals their race

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/998536881/a-black-woman-says-...

Nope, pointing it out is the racism, let's just not discuss it.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#727

Post by naasking » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

dwpdwpdwpdwpdwp wrote: post #575

rayiner wrote: post #549

Our political and cultural institutions are dominated by people who attended those elite schools. This is the next batch of folks who will be doing your IPO paperwork: https://freebeacon.com/campus/northwestern-law-administrator... Now it’s making the jump to K-12. My second grader is apparently learning how to develop an “identity” around her “skin tone” (according to an email from her teacher). This has had the pre…

The wording ‘divisive’ in all these laws is interesting. Why is this the operative word here? Banning ‘concepts’ on the grounds that they are ‘divisive’ is some of the one of the most Orwellian language I’ve ever read. It just seems like laws with the title ‘propagation of divisive concepts prohibited’ will evolve to an even expanding list of thought crime. This isn’t a comment on how race should be treated and discu…

This is a good point. Then again, the ideologies they're fighting as "divisive" have been pushing the position that some ideas can be harmful. So it seems like their own rhetoric is now being used against them, and if they don't like it, maybe they should rethink their own positions on this particular issue.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#728

Post by zzzeek » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

beerandt wrote: post #718

cloudfifty wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves No, it isn't. Its core is to enforce private property rights? That will very likely not translate into "letting everyone be themselves".

Private property rights, or being manifestly in control of the fruits of ones labor. Or the exact opposite of slavery.

the core value of libertarianism is that the strong will dominate the weak, meaning a pure libertarian society would feature widespread slavery as a primary feature.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#729

Post by shadilay » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

htns wrote: post #443

p0d wrote: post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

Probably one of the reasons Western Europe diverges from the US, despite the academic scene being similar and even more entrenched, is that the conservative bogeyman in Europe was smaller.

The reason Western Europe diverged academically is the woke academics fled Europe in the 40's.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#730

Post by cloudfifty » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

sgregnt wrote: post #713

cloudfifty wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves No, it isn't. Its core is to enforce private property rights? That will very likely not translate into "letting everyone be themselves".

AFAIK The core is freedom, i.e. a lack of coercion of any kind. If, to be yourself, you need to claim someone else property, then Libertrarians would say it goes against the core principles of liberty, because to execute this claim you exercise coertion. But as long as you do not exert coercion on no one else, you're free to be yourself anyway you like.

There nothing "freedom" about some sole family owning the only water supply generation after generation or whatever dystopian scenario that libertarianism likely would bring about. In practice it's just a dismantling of democracy in favour of feudalistic power through wealth and property.