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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

671–680 of 1001 posts

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#671

It's just a shift from older, less flexible values like family, church etc to the more open minded approach, "do as you like". Nothing wrong with people having tattoos everywhere, green or violet hair, non conformist clothing and views. Let them be, let them express and find themselves. I am the shave every day suit kinda guy and will remain so, but if someone chooses to be different or wants to complain about new wo…

Some, even most, of the goals of that movement are commendable, with the exception of the more idealistic goals such as equality of outcome. What I find worrying, however, are the tactics that are used to accomplish those goals. I find it hard to understand how people do not see how discriminating against other people because of their views is not the right approach to solve discrimination.

I was recently thinking about why I was so annoyed at wokism, and was trying to figure out what annoyed me about a movement that shares many of my values. I realized exactly what you mention, that equality of outcome leads to what is basically good old discrimination, except the group that's discriminated against is different now.

At some level, I'm disappointed that we've progressed so much in the last few decades, but all the effort was in the direction of keeping discrimination going, instead of trying to end it completely. Yes, many people have a disadvantage due to centuries of discrimination, but I don't see equality of outcome as being the way forward towards an equal society in the long run.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the woke philosophy the criterion for deserving forgiveness still exists but is changed. In classical Christian philosophy, forgiveness requires contrition whereas under woke philosophy forgiveness requires powerlessness . This is often misinterpreted as an absence of forgiveness because no amount of contrition seems to abate the condemnation.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding this. What you you mean by 'requires powerlessness'? If I commit a sin against wokeness, how do I demonstrate powerlessness in order to gain forgiveness?

Change your gender

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#673
post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

You can't be seriously using Christians, of all people, as an example of people who don't try to force their views on others.

If your argument is that many don't, well I'd argue the "woke" people you're thinking of are just like the evangelical Christians who are not practicing what they preach.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#674
post #269
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not the whole story. Kids are also very malleable, open to peer pressure and easily assume identities that earn them acceptance by their peers.

While this is technically true I think one should be careful to insinuate that this is an underlying cause. I don't think most people would say the same about homosexuality for example. It's just a more elaborate way of saying "it's a phase".

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#675

I really think this kind of content is probably bad for hackernews discourse and should be flagged.

Yes, deplatforming is the way to go.

It's The Economist, they're their own platform to support whatever content they want. Banning them from HN will hardly have any impact. It's not like banning a single individual.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#676
post #371
post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

> I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe 20th century America has spent years doing exactly this. It's still ongoing in Texas right at the minute. People have been fired for being atheist. Children are send to indoctrination camps for "gay conversion therapy" if they are suspected of homosexuality, a practice which leads some of them to commit suicide. Rein in your fellow Christians and…

So 2 wrongs make a right got it

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#677

It's just a shift from older, less flexible values like family, church etc to the more open minded approach, "do as you like". Nothing wrong with people having tattoos everywhere, green or violet hair, non conformist clothing and views. Let them be, let them express and find themselves. I am the shave every day suit kinda guy and will remain so, but if someone chooses to be different or wants to complain about new wo…

I agree 100% with you but that’s not the woke viewpoint.

“Silence is violence”.

Either get on board and start supporting them or you’re the enemy.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#678

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

[deleted]

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#679
post #669

It's just a shift from older, less flexible values like family, church etc to the more open minded approach, "do as you like". Nothing wrong with people having tattoos everywhere, green or violet hair, non conformist clothing and views. Let them be, let them express and find themselves. I am the shave every day suit kinda guy and will remain so, but if someone chooses to be different or wants to complain about new wo…

Unfortunately this laissez fair approach is the exact opposite of modern wokeness. It’s their way or it’s attacks and cancellation. If you’re an oppressor class you have almost no way to be forgiven. The easiest way to show this is just ask some woke stars on their views of libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves.

I think you’re picking the most extreme examples. Also there is a difference between libertarianism and Libertarianism.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#680
I think people are over-analysing this issue here at HN.

It is far better for upper class to ensure that people discuss and focus on issues like gender and skin colour than the class differences. Hence, they ensured that this is the issue plebs would hear all over on the media and shift their attention from class divides to gender and skin colour.

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