How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life? • Hacker News Board

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#421

Post by clusterfish » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #376

p0d wrote: post #340

As a christian I believe in mercy and grace. And yes, many of us 'believers' have not practised what we preached. Many of us do try however not to be hypocrites. Here's my question. Where is mercy and grace in the midst of wokeness? I want you to believe my christian message but I will not force you to do so. I don't want to introduce laws to force you to believe what I believe. I don't want you to lose your job beca…

>> don't want you to lose your job because you don't agree with me. But lots of people want that power. It is within living memory that people could be fired or denied employment based on thier religion. Many today still want thier religion beliefs to be enforced against believers and non-believers alike (abortion, education, marriage, adoption, right to die etc). Not every person of faith is so liberal about the aff…

> But lots of people want that power.

And most of us agree that it's bad. But most of us somehow don't agree that forcing wokeness on others is bad. Because the woke ones can't possibly imagine being wrong. Theirs is the right way, everyone else are bigots and racists. It's an aggressive religion, a cult even.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#422

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

rcoveson wrote: post #33

azth wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredibly offensive. They're projecting how English works on gendered nouns onto other language (Spanish) and then getting worked up over it. It's astounding that the people pushing the term don't see the irony.

I have seen some concern about this issue in El Salvador. But "latinx"? Not once. It's unpronounceable in Spanish. You only see the letter X in indigenous place-names like Mexico or Oaxaca, and there it's pronounced kind of like a fricative version of our H, which can't work at the end of the word. I've heard native English speakers say it's pronounced "lah-TINKS", which is so obviously foreign it's painful. Two solu…

> You only see the letter X in indigenous place-names like Mexico or Oaxaca, and there it's pronounced kind of like a fricative version of our H

Interestingly, in both of those cases it was originally pronounced like our “sh”, which is a sound that doesn’t exist in Spanish.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#423

Post by avianlyric » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

krona wrote: post #393

joconde wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative explanation: there have always been as many transgender kids, but they hid it because they knew they'd get bullied by everyone, including their own parents.

If social stigma is no longer an issue, why aren't we seeing transitioning across the entire adult population in equal proportion, and not primarily in children?

Probably because it’s much harder for adults to change their identities.

They have lives, responsibilities and dependants. Unlike children they can’t change their identities on a whim without repercussions, or negative impacts on people they care about.

I imagine that many people would rather ignore their “true” identity, than risk losing a spouse they care about, or disrupting their children’s futures.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#424

Post by krona » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

joconde wrote: post #414

krona wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If social stigma is no longer an issue, why aren't we seeing transitioning across the entire adult population in equal proportion, and not primarily in children?

> If social stigma is no longer an issue, Who said that? It's probably becoming less of an issue, but it's definitely not disappeared.

Sure, but are you implying the remaining stigma applies unequally and is dependant specifically on age? Is there any evidence of this?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#425

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:18 AM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #111

rcoveson wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen some concern about this issue in El Salvador. But "latinx"? Not once. It's unpronounceable in Spanish. You only see the letter X in indigenous place-names like Mexico or Oaxaca, and there it's pronounced kind of like a fricative version of our H, which can't work at the end of the word. I've heard native English speakers say it's pronounced "lah-TINKS", which is so obviously foreign it's painful. Two solu…

> But "latinx"? Not once. It's unpronounceable in Spanish. You only see the letter X in indigenous place-names like Mexico or Oaxaca, and there it's pronounced kind of like a fricative version of our H, which can't work at the end of the word. I've heard native English speakers say it's pronounced "lah-TINKS", which is so obviously foreign it's painful. That's pretty ironic. I never made that connection, though I onl…

I’ve heard it spoken (never, of course, by someone actually from Latin America), and it’s indeed pronounced latin-ex.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#426

Post by jtbayly » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #269

mopsi wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not the whole story. Kids are also very malleable, open to peer pressure and easily assume identities that earn them acceptance by their peers.

While this is technically true I think one should be careful to insinuate that this is an underlying cause. I don't think most people would say the same about homosexuality for example. It's just a more elaborate way of saying "it's a phase".

We know that the vast majority of the time gender disphoria starts and stops spontaneously in kids. In other words, it’s almost always just a phase.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#427

Post by etempleton » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #300

lwhi wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dangerous to dismiss transgenderism to be the result of psychological mishaps caused by environmental mishaps. You're effectively presenting a transgender person as a second class person, or a mistake. You're also aligning the ability to grow a beard with being a 1st class citizen.

Nope, what you’re doing is totally misrepresenting what I’ve said. I’m saying if there are more effeminate men you’ll have on average more people who are transgender. Myself I can barely grow a beard and have man boobs that I’m trying to get rid of and hardly any body hair (yet my Dad has a full beard and hairy chest, I’m asking why is there this big difference in just one generation) but hopefully I still count as a…

What do the men look like on your mother’s side?

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#428

Post by hnbad » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

golergka wrote: post #188

hnbad wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ignore the American political spectrum for a hot minute and get down to the core of it, a practical definition of "left" and "right" is "no hierarchy" vs "hierarchy". This holds true in economics as well as social issues: Racism is a system of hierarchy where one race is inherently good and normal and others are deviations from that, or at least every race is good or bad in some ways and there is an implied va…

> practical definition of "left" and "right" is "no hierarchy" vs "hierarchy" Absolutely not: it's the left that's usually the favor of giving more power to the most oppressive and monopolic hierarchy there is, the government, while the right is fighting to dismantle it.

I guess by "the left" you mean Democrats? They're mostly liberals, not leftists, and want to maintain the hierarchies but ease some of the most obvious impacts through regulations.

The idea that "left means more government" is also very ahistorical and feels uniquely like a product of modern American political discourse. The origin of the left-right distinction is literally the abolition of feudalism, i.e. replacing a fixed hierarchy by birthright with egalitarian democratic elections. By 1776 standards the founding fathers were left-wing radicals. The right would have literally defended the Crown.

If you understand left-right as Democrat-Republican, your view doesn't hold true either. Republicans generally want to void labor protections, reduce taxes, cut social welfare and lift environmental regulations, but they also always want to increase the military, intelligence and police budgets. Republicans also tend to want the state to enforce their idea of morality, e.g. by prohibiting (secular or non-Christian) same-sex marriages, criminalizing abortion or restricting sex education and access to contraceptives. They want to enforce what they see as the natural order through punishment whereas "the left" wants to counteract it through support. Prison abolitionists tend to be on the left, not the right.

The government isn't hierarchy. The government is an institution that interacts with hierarchy. As are large corporations for that matter. Reducing the government budget and shifting more economic power to corporations doesn't reduce hierarchies, it only takes power from elected officials to unelected shareholders.

If you believe in an unregulated free market capitalism, you literally support the hierarchy of the market and you believe in a natural order. Or to put it in words that feel less icky if you think of yourself as an anarcho-capitalist: that people should vote with their dollars on what goods and services should thrive or fail.

If you believe money is power and you believe it's good and natural for some people to have many orders of magnitude more money than other people, you believe in a natural order. This is what leftists call a hierarchy and leftists don't like it.

Note: I'm not saying leftists don't want a big government. I'm saying leftists (even outside anarchism) want to get rid of the state. They just disagree on how to get there. And for reformists that answer usually involves using the state one way or another.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#429

Post by ummwhat » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

narrator wrote: post #299

pseudalopex wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultures through history had genders we would call transgender.[1] Your source's references include "How The Jews Of Weimar Germany Ensured The Rise Of National Socialism" and "Plandemic Documentary: The Hidden Agenda Behind Covid-19". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

The "Myth of the 20th Century" is a podcast that is banned on all podcast services because they will interview people on extremely controversial topics. If you play the game of "this person believes X and a crazy person also believes X, therefore they're crazy," then you shouldn't listen to this podcast and just go about your life as you normally would. This is only if you want to deeply question your reality, and po…

The vagrant around the corner from me is banned from all stores in the area for his controversial refusal to abide by "no shirt, no shoes, no service". He's extremely not mainstream. You should only listen to him if you want to deeply question your reality and possibly ruin your life by becoming aware of the things that go against the mainstream narrative pushed by the drugstore-industrial complex. Showering every day is a myth pushed by the trillion dollars advertising industry. I consider being banned from places a sign of credibility, and refuse to believe the official story that we were banned for "smelling like shit".

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#430

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

supakeen wrote: post #378

dragonwriter wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The x is an American invention that is unknown in the culture it tries to adapt It’s (both “Latinx” and the “-x” to reject the gender binary in Spanish more generally), AFAIK, a Hispanic LGBTQ culture invention, which while originating in the USA, is also used elsewhere (the “-x” ending as an emphatic rejection of the gender binary, not the specific term “Latinx”.) Though its a small minority that use it even in th…

We use 'e': latines, etc.

We who? -e and -@ are both used, sure, but similar studies snd survey to those showing that -x is rarely used in the community show those are even more rare.