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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

economist.com

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#221

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

I understand this might get downvoted and while I agree with the parent I also blame the contraceptive pill, dysregulation of hormone systems (various reasons), environmental toxins and the general malleability of people when it comes to sexuality at very young ages and for reasons we don’t understand. In my father’s generation the vast majority of men by the time they were 25 years old could grown thick beards now I’d say it’s a minority. We should be more curious about where these changes have come from.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#222
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ignore the American political spectrum for a hot minute and get down to the core of it, a practical definition of "left" and "right" is "no hierarchy" vs "hierarchy". This holds true in economics as well as social issues: Racism is a system of hierarchy where one race is inherently good and normal and others are deviations from that, or at least every race is good or bad in some ways and there is an implied va…

> practical definition of "left" and "right" is "no hierarchy" vs "hierarchy" Absolutely not: it's the left that's usually the favor of giving more power to the most oppressive and monopolic hierarchy there is, the government, while the right is fighting to dismantle it.

You're just replacing an elected government with more unelected power.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#223
post #7

I'm glad that the Economist points out at the end that 'wokeness' has become a favorite of business, and the reason is pretty obvious, as a movement it's self-defeating because all identitarian politics eventually ends in infighting, with its subjective, choice and preference based worldview it's actually ill-equipped to move anything. It might exist in academia or PR departments or journalism or facebook pages and t…

I'm curious what any possible alternatives might be to the practical problems "wokeness" tries to present itself as a solution to. I don't think the problem of racism and sexism (two classic "woke" topics) are "Left" problems, which is why it strikes me as odd that I don't see ideas about how to deal with them coming from everyone, beyond a straight denial they exist, or that it's actually the fault of the folks expe…

> I'm curious what any possible alternatives might be to the practical problems "wokeness" tries to present itself as a solution to.

The obvious solution is meritocracy and race/sex blindness. That's the world I wish to live in - non-discrimination & equality of opportunity, not "positive" discrimination (it's always positive for someone) and (enforced) equality of outcome. But the Woke Left has been quite hostile to those concepts recently...

Edit: added "Woke" before "Left" because presumably there's other (liberal) Left that would support meritocracy.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#224

> acronyms such as vapa (Visual and Performing Arts), on the ground that they are “a symptom of white supremacy”. wait, how? Surely all cultures have at some point embraced visual and performance arts?

It's not that, it's the fact it's an acronym that only certain groups are familiar with. Calling it Visual and Performance Arts is fine, because everyone understands what it means. Calling it VAPA is inferior communication, because it only signals to those already familiar with the acronym, and leaves the rest out.

Instead they now just call it the 'Arts Department', so everyone understands what it means.

For example, if you're a first generation parent, new to the US, not very familiar with English, clean toilets for a living, not very familiar with the school system, have no network of people who work in schools or go to certain programs, and are looking for a good program for your child, then it's easier to navigate information on a website, brochure or banner that says 'Arts Department' than 'VAPA'. These parents may be unaware of the program entirely, and not apply.

Whereas if you're white, your parents go to broadway shows and the NY MOMA, your brother-in-law is superintendent of an arts school whose daughter studies at VAPA, you'll be more likely to know what the acronym stands for, and more likely to navigate the same information (websites, banners, brochures) that say VAPA just fine, and apply for the program.

I'm exaggerating the examples a bit, but the common thread is: language is a tool for communication, acronyms can be complicating and obfuscating factors in communication in certain contexts (in others they're fine), such as marketing school programs to children/parents from all backgrounds. And as (unintended!) outcome they can thereby happen to filter out poor/minority backgrounds, leaving white/majority/rich groups, who get access to these programs. That observed outcome benefits white people (which is why the words 'white supremacy' came in, which I think is wrong as it implies intentionality where there isn't one... instead I think it can better be defined as unintended extremely minor white privilege'.)

Losing the acronym is a simple and potentially useful and also extremely minor step to take, that got dragged into the spotlight as a symbol for anti-'oppression' and anti-'wokeness' from both sides respectively.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TSR/WotC laughed off the right's assault on D&D during the "Dark Dungeons" era when they tried associating it with Satanism. Well, there was a period of many years when WotC stopped printing the creature type "Demon" out of deference to that assault. (And if I recall correctly, TSR replaced the terms "devil" and "demon" with "Baatezu" and "Tanar'ri". I don't know whether they had yet been bought out by WotC.)

And let’s be honest: The “satanic panic” had no basis in fact. The idea that role playing gamers were going to do actual magic (or even think they were doing magic) is clearly nonsense. But if you use human ethnicities as the basis for your games monsters… yeah, that’s a real problem. It doesn’t mean you have to ban D&D, but it does mean it should address those issues. Same with rock music. I don’t care if bands writ…

> But if you use human ethnicities as the basis for your games monsters… yeah, that’s a real problem.

But they don't? The concept of an orc (big, strong and dumb) does not depend on the existence of any real races.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#226
post #167

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

> I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK No, there hasn't. You've been lied to. There was no treatment for trans children (in the UK). Then a clinic opened up. We went from zero trans boys to some trans boys. Anti trans campaigners misuse percentages to show an "alarming" rise, when in fact we've simply gone from "none" to "some".

I'm pretty sure this is the exact opposite of reality though - there have been clinics for trans children in the UK for decades, and one of the main things affecting the availability of treatment is that the number of cases referred to them skyrocketed recently.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#228
post #24

The elite have always had a disconnected culture from the masses. Things like a taste for golf or the influence of certain clubs over high levels of government. That isn't unusual. That people from that culture then get to control the rest of a country because someone has to, and it may as well be the elites. So the cultural disconnect isn't new or a problem. The problem is that this ideology seems to be (1) heavily…

It is amusing how wokeism not being defined allows it to be just about anything. Gay and trans people have a history of being locked out of most social groups and in all recent history have lower incomes and political influence than most, yet now they are portrayed as elites because of a like to recognition higher learning. Wouldn't it be easier to admit that people confuse you and that makes you upset?

Gay & trans people generally aren't woke, in my experience. Only one of the ones I'm friends with is, at any rate.

Being a member of the elite is a better predictor than sexual orientation at any rate.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#229
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In English I’ve understood it is common to use a singular they as a non gendered pronoun. In Swedish the newly introduced hen is in quite widespread use instead of han/hon (he/she).

It is, but it causes ambiguity. “The politician made a statement to the press. They were shocked” Who does “they” refer to there?

Exactly the same amount of ambiguity as "The politician addressed Other Male Politician. He was shocked"...

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TSR/WotC laughed off the right's assault on D&D during the "Dark Dungeons" era when they tried associating it with Satanism. Well, there was a period of many years when WotC stopped printing the creature type "Demon" out of deference to that assault. (And if I recall correctly, TSR replaced the terms "devil" and "demon" with "Baatezu" and "Tanar'ri". I don't know whether they had yet been bought out by WotC.)

And let’s be honest: The “satanic panic” had no basis in fact. The idea that role playing gamers were going to do actual magic (or even think they were doing magic) is clearly nonsense. But if you use human ethnicities as the basis for your games monsters… yeah, that’s a real problem. It doesn’t mean you have to ban D&D, but it does mean it should address those issues. Same with rock music. I don’t care if bands writ…

If you go to YouTube via a CGNAT with all cookies cleared you'll always get one or two top suggestions with extremely well endowed women in the thumbnail.

That is the woke Google who delivers what everybody wants to see. But it is easier to go after the nerds because they are "icky".

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