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How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

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Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#191
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK No, there hasn't. You've been lied to. There was no treatment for trans children (in the UK). Then a clinic opened up. We went from zero trans boys to some trans boys. Anti trans campaigners misuse percentages to show an "alarming" rise, when in fact we've simply gone from "none" to "some".

That's exactly what the parent comment said, though, isn't it? Increase from none to some is indeed massive.

No, the parent said that the numbers of trans people have increased. That's not true. The numbers of trans people able to get treatment is the thing that increased. We went from not counting, to counting. So we didn't increase the number of trans people, we just started counting the trans people that always existed.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To an extent left and right are asymmetrical---leftist groups tend to be groups organized around being leftist as their main purpose, while "rightist" groups (churches, police unions, gun enthusiasts) tend to be rightist incidentally . Neo Nazis feel like the exception that proves the rule.

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What a disrespectful take - the Nazis (and Freikorps before them) murdered socialists and communists from the Spartacist League, SPD, KPD, etc.

They sent trade unionists and Esperantists to concentration camps, because they were also deemed to be leftists.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This probably isn’t the argument you think it is. Many reactionaries seem have a romanticized view of Russian culture and probably would be fine there.

No, actually they have no idea how Eastern European cultures are, less Russia. They would stick out like a sore thumb, they would be shunned, treated with distance for being foreigners. Being 'christian' wouldnt do literally sh*t. The only places where they would be getting treated normally would be ironically places with more woke Russians - ie Russian liberals, educated, woke people. Who would not shun others for b…

> They would stick out like a sore thumb, they would be shunned, treated with distance for being foreigners. Being 'christian' wouldnt do literally sh*t.

I agree. In fact I think that their religion would only serve to exacerbate things since (unless I'm very wrong) Russians are largely Orthodox Catholics and these people are largely protestant and evangelical

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#195
post #168

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

This book’s trying to explain why this is happening for girls: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreversible_Damage

That book relies on the concept of ROGD, which is something that doesn't exist. Anybody pushing ROGD, or supporting other people who push ROGD, is anti-science and anti-fact.

You should consider why you feel comfortable pushing something that's obviously bollocks, just because it supports your anti-trans activism.

https://www.caaps.co/rogd-statement

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#196

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

Depending on how much your surroundings insist on putting labels and associated limitations based on what is between your legs on you during growing up; the puberty experience of one half of society can be more awful. This may also get reflected in current numbers of transmen vs transwomen. A transition is an extreme decision taken based on an unbearable amount of such psychological pain.

Wondering what started the labeling too though, I’ve also been teached the value of individualism and fended off any label applied to me.. maybe it’s about realizing that most people out there want to apply labels, so a response to their rigid labels is coming up with unlimited new labels.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#197
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have adopted burgers, coca-cola, Hollywood movies etc. from The Current Dominant Culture, why wouldn't they parrot things like woke pronouns.

>The Current Dominant Culture Haha, travel more buddy, the dominant culture is the country's own culture, not the one from the US. You know, the US adapted Beer and Sushi too. BTW: Movies, Games and "Social-media" is NOT Culture but cheap entertainment.

It would be more accurate to instead call it cultural diffusion instead

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#198

On a related point, what I'm uncertain about are the reasons for the increase in transgender kids in the west. I understand there's been a massive increase in cases for transmen in the UK and USA for example. Is this because we can identify these conditions much better now? Maybe. I don't have the background to say for sure. There is a real fear in society though that woke schools of thought are a harmful influence t…

Alternative explanation: there have always been as many transgender kids, but they hid it because they knew they'd get bullied by everyone, including their own parents.

[deleted]

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#199
post #69
post #7

I'm glad that the Economist points out at the end that 'wokeness' has become a favorite of business, and the reason is pretty obvious, as a movement it's self-defeating because all identitarian politics eventually ends in infighting, with its subjective, choice and preference based worldview it's actually ill-equipped to move anything. It might exist in academia or PR departments or journalism or facebook pages and t…

I agree, and I'm concerned about the divide and conquer-type of impact it's having in societal discourse. This effect seems way too convenient (and beneficial) for the ruling class, and in that respect, I'm afraid academia may be inadvertantly working against the common interest of the working classes by pushing these worldviews.

It's called recuperation and it doesn't even require nefarious intent.

These days anti-capitalism is literally sold as a commodity. Anti-consumerism has become a consumer identity. While this helps deradicalization by diverting the radical energy away from actual causes towards consumption, it also tends to make a good profit.

The problem isn't the worldviews. The problem is that you can't fight capitalism through consumption. You can't fight hierarchies by acting within the system of hierarchy, you have to step outside.

As an example, the Black Panthers (not the Marvel movie) not only offered social programs and free food in Black communities, they also built coalitions with other racial groups who tried to do the same in their communities. While at a glance acting only within their racial lines (i.e. racial identity politics) they actively worked against racial division through mutual solidarity.

Solidarity across divisions is important, but it can only work if you acknowledge the existence of the divisions and the power imbalances these divisions reinforce.

As an example in the negative, unions in the early 20th century US often failed because they rejected Black workers who then had no other economical option but to become scabs when white unionized workers went on strike (because they didn't get any of the union benefits and had no union covering their backs if they had joined the strike).

There's a widespread misconception these days that "left solidarity" means that all members of "the left" have to be equally "woke". They all have to believe in exactly the one leftist ideology you think is best, they all have to treat all marginalized groups exactly the way you think they must be treated and so on. This is where the leftist memes of the circular firing squad and purity spirals come from. THIS is harmful and divisive.

However the answer is not to "not be woke". The answer is to better embrace pragmatic alliances and understand that you can have a shared struggle even if it doesn't perfectly overlap. There's a place for close-nit communities but "the left" is not a clubhouse.

As another final example, there's a famous incident in the UK (recently portrayed in the movie "Pride") where gay activists joined striking coal miners because both groups were facing violent opposition from the police. The collaboration helped foster class consciousness in the gay activists and queer acceptance among the coal miners. They didn't become one cohesive ideologically perfect group but their solidarity made them more powerful in their shared struggle than either group would have been on their own.

Re: How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to everyday life?

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> TSR/WotC laughed off the right's assault on D&D during the "Dark Dungeons" era when they tried associating it with Satanism. Well, there was a period of many years when WotC stopped printing the creature type "Demon" out of deference to that assault. (And if I recall correctly, TSR replaced the terms "devil" and "demon" with "Baatezu" and "Tanar'ri". I don't know whether they had yet been bought out by WotC.)

And let’s be honest: The “satanic panic” had no basis in fact. The idea that role playing gamers were going to do actual magic (or even think they were doing magic) is clearly nonsense.

But if you use human ethnicities as the basis for your games monsters… yeah, that’s a real problem.

It doesn’t mean you have to ban D&D, but it does mean it should address those issues.

Same with rock music. I don’t care if bands write about demons and wizards, but maybe try not to objectify women so much.

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