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I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

rachsmith.com

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Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#81
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this is true. The latest frameworks aren’t just “trends”, like fashion. They’re improved ways of doing things. Better, simpler, more reliable. Advocating to use tech that changes slowly, or avoid latest frameworks is advocating being slower and less productive.

Eh, idk. We could have lisp, x-expressions, macros, and DSLs instead of most frameworks. We could even use lisp dialects to “write C” (eg Chicken Scheme). I do think a lot of frameworks are fashion statements, but that’s okay because style matters when doing creative work.

The people who say latest javascript frameworks are just fashions are not javascript developers.

They’re developers from other ecosystems who just want to look down in javascript and feel superior.

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#82
post #72

Haha. I ignored the web dev scene for a year or two to work on something else. Angularjs vanished and nobody will hire you unless you have worked with react. Rest is gone and everyone is obsessed with graphql. Kubernetes really took off. React alone isn’t enough though, it’s nextjs and everyone is looking into trendy redux replacements now. Typescript is everywhere. Everyone assumes you can’t code your way out of a p…

> everyone is looking into trendy redux replacements now A lot of people are probably soured on redux forever (that's how these things tend to work) but they've done a really great job with their hooks based API and especially the redux toolkit/RTK Query. Getting started today using the toolkit is so much more straightforward and easier to understand that it feels like a totally new library. If you're still living in…

Totally! Wonder if people realize that the person who wrote a lot of these libraries (hooks) as part of the core React team wrote Redux before joining the team? Dan Abramov. Everyone soured on an older (worse) abstraction because the same engineer who build the abstraction thought about it longer and built better abstractions that were also easy to adopt. I think that’s super cool, and doesn’t quite fit the narrative that people are trying to paint here of “fad chasing.”

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#84
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> React has at least been steady. Huh? I did a bunch of React work a few years ago when everything was classes. Then I went off and did other stuff for a bit, and when I came back to React, everyone was using hooks.

But you can still use that same class syntax when writing your components.

Yeah. I should have been clearer on that. React has been steady in that the same code mostly still works.

That or I've just been lucky. Very possible. I have mostly ignored the fuss over redux and friends.

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#85
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first rule you should remember when reading HN is the real world is not HN. Can you explain what you mean by that?

How often do you see Rust mentioned here? Rust's actual use in the industry is minimal. Yes, it's growing, but it's relatively unknown. The small academic team I was on wrote a stats app package using Mithril. Nobody's using mithril, it's hardly discussed here, even though the author posts often. I truly believe that mithril is better than React or Vue people just don't know about it, it's not part of the hype cycle.…

> the author posts often.

Oh hey, that's me :)

I'm a big believer in the idea of mastering fundamentals, and even explicitly mention in the mithril.js framework comparison page[0] that you can build production quality stuff with any framework (including of course mithril.js)

There's this pervasive notion with newer tech that new things must be objectively superior than old stuff, but the way I see is that everything comes with trade-offs, e.g. Rust may indeed be safer than C, but conversely it's also been characterized as difficult to learn/keep up with, and IIRC has a less broad range of target architectures.

I think, however, that reading resources like the "The descent to C"[1] article that's up on front page can help someone getting into C, but also Rust, and even someone who wants to gain some insight about how Javascript works under the hood, precisely because it's a resource more about fundamentals than C per se.

Similarly, there are fundamental patterns that appear over and over in competing technologies (e.g. routing in JS frameworks, or DI in object oriented systems), and this goes for even the design of said patterns (e.g. principles of encapsulation, composition and orthogonality)

I've even had success applying the search of fundamentals to other disciplines. Bruce Lee famously said "fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times". But one hidden insight is that in martial arts "it's all about the hips": once you "get" the insight about the role of hip rotation, all striking techniques improve by leaps and bounds. Many such "fundamental" insights exist, from insights about balance to insights about tells.

In music playing, one universal insight is that effortlessness is quite literally a matter of muscle relaxation (beginners often get stuck in a rut because they tense up unconsciously). Etc.

It's fun looking for fundamental insights.

[0] https://mithril.js.org/framework-comparison.html

[1] https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/cdescent/

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#86

Haha. I ignored the web dev scene for a year or two to work on something else. Angularjs vanished and nobody will hire you unless you have worked with react. Rest is gone and everyone is obsessed with graphql. Kubernetes really took off. React alone isn’t enough though, it’s nextjs and everyone is looking into trendy redux replacements now. Typescript is everywhere. Everyone assumes you can’t code your way out of a p…

> everyone is looking into trendy redux replacements now What's wrong with redux? I've been using it in my last 2 companies, it scales amazingly and I think that's one of the stack in react that I'm comfortable with

At my last company (a FANG) it was deemed too complicated/hard to learn

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#88
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a back end Dev it looks like build tooling has largely materialized into a few choices and doesn’t change as fast.

As a firmware dev it looks like all yalls crazy

So very true. :)

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#89

Haha. I ignored the web dev scene for a year or two to work on something else. Angularjs vanished and nobody will hire you unless you have worked with react. Rest is gone and everyone is obsessed with graphql. Kubernetes really took off. React alone isn’t enough though, it’s nextjs and everyone is looking into trendy redux replacements now. Typescript is everywhere. Everyone assumes you can’t code your way out of a p…

> everyone is looking into trendy redux replacements now What's wrong with redux? I've been using it in my last 2 companies, it scales amazingly and I think that's one of the stack in react that I'm comfortable with

I enjoyed it while I used it but my main issues with it were with the developer experience and how many files the logic was spread across: actions, action constants, reducers, etc. When you have to edit 4 different files just to add a loading flag then I feel like something has gone wrong. If it solves your problems and you’re happy though, no need to let anyone convince you to change!

Re: I completely ignored the front end development scene for 6 months. It was fine

#90

Obsession with the latest frameworks and the proclivity to refer to someone as an "X developer" for some X ∈ {popular frameworks} is a sign of ignorance/immaturity, both for developers and hiring managers. Those with a solid understanding of the underlying principles (both computer science theory and, in the case of front-end development, the core web standards) are the best positioned to make the most impactful cont…

I agree with you in theory, but in practice, I find it really hard to get a job saying, "I'm acquainted with CS fundamentals." I once got bounced from a job interview for not knowing about a quirk of the newest XCode (less than a week old).

This is absurd. I failed interview because I didn't know what new feature was added at Java 8 which was released ten years ago.
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