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UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

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Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#101

Post by native_samples »

chadash wrote: post #69
mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

> I hope this gets settled by the labor board or the Supreme Court rather than companies takin that mantle to impose a mandate themselves. Generally, the default is that private companies can discriminate however they please. In certain cases we've decided that that's not good for a society (race, religion, ethnicity), so we restrict their ability to do that. But why shouldn't private companies be allowed to make the…

People not taking a vaccine does not change the risk faced by their coworkers. I don't think you really believe that, hence the "psychological perception" hedge.

Which answers your question: companies should not be able to discriminate in this way for the same reason they aren't allowed to discriminate based on gender, sexuality, etc, even though some surely would. Because it would be irrational and wrong.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#102

Post by Gibbon1 »

mc32 wrote: post #27

The labor minister of Germany recently said that companies cannot force employees to disclose their immunization status. There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other. We need to achieve a reasonable balance. Draconian ‘thou shalt’ demands are not the solutions but more and more companies are starting to require evidence of vaccination whether you’re going to the office o…

> There is a conflict between health on the one side and civil liberties/privacy on the other.

That's utterly inane no matter how many people believe it. Where I'm from it's illegal to drive drunk, drive faster than the speed limit, shoot guns in the air. Why is you walking around spreading a virus to defenseless people any different?

It isn't.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#103

Post by nickthemagicman »

nomdep wrote: post #73
nickthemagicman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it happen.... all the time? yes yes it does. You need to grow up and accept that other people aren't out there to protect you like Mommy and Daddy. The world does not exist to hold your hand. Never had been. Your life, your responsibility, your choices. That is the essence of freedom and it's beautiful. It's too bad you would sacrifice freedom for safety.

You should go back to your bunker now.

Thanks for the kind words!

A bunker would be great for a person to quarantine themselves off from covid too!

Don't leave quarantine ever! Stay home, stay safe, and keep granny safe!

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#104

Post by nickthemagicman »

otherme123 wrote: post #91
nickthemagicman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it happen.... all the time? yes yes it does. You need to grow up and accept that other people aren't out there to protect you like Mommy and Daddy. The world does not exist to hold your hand. Never had been. Your life, your responsibility, your choices. That is the essence of freedom and it's beautiful. It's too bad you would sacrifice freedom for safety.

Even the most extreme views of libertarianism have the principle of "do not harm others" as the limit for one's freedoms. In fact, other political philosophies have a softer view on this principle, like utilitarianism (maximize wellness even if it goes against a minory). Rothbard, and I doubt you can find anyone much more libertarian than him, wrote that if you knowingly cause suffering or death of another human bein…

> knowingly cause suffering or death of another human being

>if you spread covid

No one knows how Covid spreads or who it will kill. Your argument is weak from the very start.

But assuming we know exactly that if someone doesn't wear a mask they will kill some person who is vulnerable.

Whose responsibility is that?

The vulnerable person for leaving the house or the entire public for not accommodating that person?

No matter how much mental gymnastics you'd like to do...I'd argue most libertarian thinkers would take the 'individualist' stance vs the 'collectivist' stance.

As that's the basis of the entire libertarian philosophy.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#105

Post by bluGill »

sennight wrote: post #84
bluGill wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity We carefully place limits for things like race. However those are narrow things. > That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done. That is one reason companies don't mandate everything (although it is mandated): companies with good maternity leave policies a…

> We carefully place limits for things like race. Oof, that isn't even close to what the civil rights act was designed to address. Conflating this with that would not go the way you'd likely want. > This is more valuable than the time lost. Something so true that it has to be compelled by law!

> Something so true that it has to be compelled by law!

Just because it is compelled by law doesn't mean it has to be. My company gives me paternity leave which isn't compelled by law, so I'm sure they would give maternity leave even without the law.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#106

Post by da_chicken »

swayvil wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take the words of those particular strangers over yours, after all, you are also a stranger, and an anonymous one at that.

You miss my point. I offer that firsthand observation makes for better knowledge than secondhand.

Wouldn't that entirely depend on the quality of observation?

I live in a state with a lot of flooding. I've personally witnessed several floods in the past 30 years, including those described as 100 year and 500 year flood levels. I've never seen anyone die in a flood, and nobody died due to flood waters in the two events above. Should I then conclude that flood waters, though very damaging to property, are safe?

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#107

Post by nickthemagicman »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #72
sennight wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your world there are no seatbelt laws and people are free to drink raw milk? Must be nice.

Yes, exactly correct at least for me. Two excellent example. These are mostly victimless, if somebody make a bad choice here he is harming himself. Seatbelt law for small children though is maybe okay.

Thanks agreed.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#108

Post by swayvil »

da_chicken wrote: post #106
swayvil wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You miss my point. I offer that firsthand observation makes for better knowledge than secondhand.

Wouldn't that entirely depend on the quality of observation? I live in a state with a lot of flooding. I've personally witnessed several floods in the past 30 years, including those described as 100 year and 500 year flood levels. I've never seen anyone die in a flood, and nobody died due to flood waters in the two events above. Should I then conclude that flood waters, though very damaging to property, are safe?

It would constitute strong evidence for that.

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#109

Post by dang »

minikites wrote: post #20
sennight wrote: post #14

The fact that anyone would think it is the responsibility of employers to force others to do anything... just amazing. You know that there is a system already in place to do that, right? It is even designed to guard against abuses that businesses aren't equipped for: this is a function of government. If you want to force your vision of the world on others - lobby the government, that is what it is there for.

I would love it if the government required vaccination but the last time the government did something controversial, a bunch of looters and thugs stormed the US Capitol and killed several police officers.

Posting this sort of ideological flamebait to HN is abusive. If it isn't arson, it's criminal negligence.

Since we've asked you many times not to do this on HN and you've continued to do it repeatedly, I've banned your account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: UBS CEO: Those who don’t want the vaccine can work from home

#110

Post by lamontcg »

literallyaduck wrote: post #52
andybak wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean?

They can use this as a way to get the people who don't vaccinate to self identify by luring them into "you don't have to come back to the office, you can work from home". Once people have been identified they will have the list of people to let go. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1938-nazi-law-forced-... Read this and substitute Jew for Antivaxer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_legislation_in_p...…

Lol, nobody is going to gas the antivaxxers and put them to death.

The worst possible imaginable thing would be forcible vaccination.

Which amounts to a needle prick (that you honestly can't even feel) followed by dramatically reduced incidence of disease and a bunch of people will live a lot longer than they would otherwise.

But, yeah, that totally sounds like genocide to me.

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