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Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

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Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#321

Post by zaptrem »

Grakel wrote: post #318
sjg007 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt has the right to protect public health.

The government does not have rights. In the United States the power resides in the individual citizens. The "government" are individual citizens selected to do the paperwork. When their corruption exceeds our disinterest, they're done.

And yet the majority of those citizens agree with vaccine mandates among other public health measures https://news.uchicago.edu/story/most-americans-support-vacci...

It’s almost like the government is still fulfilling the will of the people!

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#322

Post by MatteoFrigo »

ubercore wrote: post #278
criticaltinker wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cited numbers reported by the CDC who reviewed VAERS reports and determined that a subset met the CDC’s own criteria. I accurately transcribed facts from an official CDC document, and even linked the source, nothing more. Do you really think that is fear-mongering? The CDC is actively investigating many of the reports, dismissing them as not confirmed is a bit disingenuous at the very least.

I think parent is commenting here that the CDC is talking about self-reported data. We're not talking about a diagnosis from a doctor. Calling them "confirmed" is just as disingenuous, if I'm understanding the explanations in the slides you link.

Slide 11 appears to say that a large number of cases were hospitalized. If this interpretation is correct, we are talking about a diagnosis from a doctor, not self-reported data.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#323

Post by criticaltinker »

rsfern wrote: post #296
criticaltinker wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's little/no treatment for the infection resulting from this virus. This is not true. Since the beginning of the pandemic front line doctors have been successfully reducing hospitalization and death through early treatment with antivirals, corticosteriods, and antithrombotics. [1] Multifaceted highly targeted sequential multidrug treatment of early ambulatory high-risk SARS-CoV-2 infection (COVID-19) https://s…

[1] is an interesting lit review on what drug strategies have been tried where in the world. None of these papers seem to present strong clinical evidence that these drugs have actually been effective, vs some hidden covariate or something. A couple include interesting small-sample observational studies, but as I understand it those haven’t panned out in follow-on randomized controlled trials that have been done. The…

Fair enough, here are some high quality RCTs that provide the strong clinical evidence you're looking for.

[1] Ivermectin in combination with doxycycline for treating COVID-19 symptoms: a randomized trial https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983065/

[2] Fluvoxamine: A Review of Its Mechanism of Action and Its Role in COVID-19 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2021.6526...

[3] Baricitinib plus Remdesivir for Hospitalized Adults with Covid-19 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33306283/

[4] Remdesivir for the Treatment of Covid-19 - Final Report https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32445440/

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#324

Post by legerdemain »

GuB-42 wrote: post #293
legerdemain wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of presumptions that Covid will "become like a common cold," but what separates this from dangerous wishful thinking? Humanity suffered from smallpox for centuries before it was finally eradicated. It's not clear that it was becoming meaningfully less severe. Dengue is endemic in tropical regions. A reinfection often leads to severe disease. Yellow fever did not get better over time. We vaccinated actual…

There are several arguments supporting the idea that covid will become like the common cold, it is not a generic "all viruses turn into the common cold". We already have 4 endemic coronaviruses that cause common colds, and we suspect that they started as deadly pandemics too, which were historically reported as the flu. Many specialists suspect that the OC43 coronavirus caused the 1889 "Russian flu". Covid seems to f…

You give two arguments. One is that some colds in humans are caused by coronaviruses. But on the other hand, coronaviruses cause severe and fatal illness in livestock and are not getting attenuated.

The second argument is that over a century ago, an epidemic might have possibly been caused by a coronavirus, and might have possibly become a common strain of the flu. This tenuous and unprovable line of reasoning is exactly what I see as wishful thinking.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#325

Post by sjg007 »

Grakel wrote: post #318
sjg007 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt has the right to protect public health.

The government does not have rights. In the United States the power resides in the individual citizens. The "government" are individual citizens selected to do the paperwork. When their corruption exceeds our disinterest, they're done.

Umm.. this is why we need civics classes because people Don’t actually understand what the purpose of government is and what we rights we give up to be governed.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#326

Post by legerdemain »

GuB-42 wrote: post #293
legerdemain wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of presumptions that Covid will "become like a common cold," but what separates this from dangerous wishful thinking? Humanity suffered from smallpox for centuries before it was finally eradicated. It's not clear that it was becoming meaningfully less severe. Dengue is endemic in tropical regions. A reinfection often leads to severe disease. Yellow fever did not get better over time. We vaccinated actual…

There are several arguments supporting the idea that covid will become like the common cold, it is not a generic "all viruses turn into the common cold". We already have 4 endemic coronaviruses that cause common colds, and we suspect that they started as deadly pandemics too, which were historically reported as the flu. Many specialists suspect that the OC43 coronavirus caused the 1889 "Russian flu". Covid seems to f…

And speaking of breakthrough cases, I am literally writing a condolence note to a colleague whose mother passed away yesterday.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#327

Post by quantumwoke »

MatteoFrigo wrote: post #322
ubercore wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think parent is commenting here that the CDC is talking about self-reported data. We're not talking about a diagnosis from a doctor. Calling them "confirmed" is just as disingenuous, if I'm understanding the explanations in the slides you link.

Slide 11 appears to say that a large number of cases were hospitalized. If this interpretation is correct, we are talking about a diagnosis from a doctor, not self-reported data.

All the slides say is that there were 700ish reports that met case criteria as reported through VAERS, a self-reporting system. We are not told any information about which case criteria were met (objective vs subjective), comorbidities, reason for presentation (all vital information for a true diagnosis not report). We are not told about degree of hospitalisation or reason for hospitalisation. We are most certainly not given confirmed cases as GP claims, the stringent criteria for which are listed one link deep from the presentation. We are left with a misleading link to a scary-sounding number that is being posted by multiple accounts across HN with nebulous intent and in some cases history of posting blatant misinformation. I feel that calling this practice out when I see it helps if just a little bit.

In this case a look through GP's recent comment history reveals many comments with disinformation and fear-mongering.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#328

Post by nradov »

jiggawatts wrote: post #281
polote wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an aside, the virus is actively changing over time, and delta variant is putting a lot more young people in the hospital. If this is the case, this is not hugely more than the previous variants as we can't see it on hospitalizations charts > Why wear your seatbelt if you can still die in a collision? Why not wear a helmet in a car I'm sure it would help in some cases ?

> Why not wear a helmet in a car I'm sure it would help in some cases ? Race car drivers do wear helmets ! Risk-benefit is a simple matter of considering the relative downsides (costs) vs benefit (safety) of available options, and making some rational choices. COVID is insanely dangerous. Even for young people, the dangers of COVID are directly comparable to professional car racing, base jumping, or similarly high-ri…

You are posting misinformation. I would encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can. But according to the CDC the fatality rate for people in the 18-49 age group is only 0.06%. And the deaths are mostly people with serious co-morbid conditions. The risk is nowhere near as high as BASE jumping.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jsams.2020.11.002

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#329

Post by SamPatt »

zaptrem wrote: post #321
Grakel wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government does not have rights. In the United States the power resides in the individual citizens. The "government" are individual citizens selected to do the paperwork. When their corruption exceeds our disinterest, they're done.

And yet the majority of those citizens agree with vaccine mandates among other public health measures https://news.uchicago.edu/story/most-americans-support-vacci... It’s almost like the government is still fulfilling the will of the people!

The government is not meant to be majority rule.

It was explicitly created to prevent majority rule. The Senate acted as a longer term, more stable body to counteract the more popularist House. Originally citizens didn't even vote for Senators, they were appointed by the states themselves.

An entire set of explicit rules restrained what the majority could do (Constitution and Bill of Rights).

Majority rule has a long history of abuses. We shouldn't abandon our system of limiting majority power because of a virus.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#330

Post by nradov »

legerdemain wrote: post #246
hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

I see a lot of presumptions that Covid will "become like a common cold," but what separates this from dangerous wishful thinking? Humanity suffered from smallpox for centuries before it was finally eradicated. It's not clear that it was becoming meaningfully less severe. Dengue is endemic in tropical regions. A reinfection often leads to severe disease. Yellow fever did not get better over time. We vaccinated actual…

COVID-19 already is like a common cold for the vast majority of younger patients. Over the long run most people will get infected as youths and build up immunity which protects them later in life. There will be no significant herd immunity effect, but fortunately the vaccines are very effective at preventing deaths.

https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/175...

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