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The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

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Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#71

Post by stank345 »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #68
MauranKilom wrote: post #11

A few years ago, I made a new year's resolution to be more forgiving to myself. At the time, I would feel miserable at the end of the day for, say, not doing laundry even though I had resolved to do so. I would downright hate myself for not getting this simple task done despite having had the time. So, that year, whenever I would have such a thought, I'd tell myself that I forgive my past self. "It's ok!" And it has…

The problem Is I see reminders to my failures constantly (I have mint.com open on one of my monitors). I can’t easily escape being an abject failure because of my lack of social class and status.

It sounds like you are being unfair to yourself, perhaps brutally so. Would you consider others of your social class and status abject failures?

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#72

Post by zebraflask »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #67
afarrell wrote: post #19

> At this point in this conversation, some part of me starts to feel concerned about complacency. I know that my standards are unrealistic. But they also serve as a big part of my motivation system. And I feel concerned that if I just removed them, that I'd be complacent, and never do anything. And that feels terrifying. This past year, I’ve noticed in myself a tendency to assume I am naturally unmotivated and need s…

Funny, I've been a devoted fan of Taylorism ever since I read _Cheaper by the Dozen_ as a kid. To me it just means doing things better and faster each day. To you it seems like more of a harsh taskmaster?

Probably not the time or place for extended discussions of Taylorism, but in its original form, it was meant to be applied to product manufacturing, right?

Bit of a disconnect to apply any of that to personal improvement considerations, at least as I see it.

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#74

Post by spython »

jodrellblank wrote: post #52
MauranKilom wrote: post #11

A few years ago, I made a new year's resolution to be more forgiving to myself. At the time, I would feel miserable at the end of the day for, say, not doing laundry even though I had resolved to do so. I would downright hate myself for not getting this simple task done despite having had the time. So, that year, whenever I would have such a thought, I'd tell myself that I forgive my past self. "It's ok!" And it has…

This is the basis of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT); hating oneself or forgiving oneself are behaviours of the mind (cognition), and the idea is that we can fall into negative behaviours and get stuck there, and can learn positive behaviours instead. A realted sticking point is when we can't learn positive beahviours, because we don't want to give up the negative ones - e.g. "I deserve to hate myself for not doi…

Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT), as a further development of CBT, seems to be even better geared towards forgiveness, acceptance and commitment to the goals you actually deeply care about. (Haven't tried it personally though)

A great overview here: https://www.metafilter.com/182938/We-Hurt-Where-We-Care

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#76

Post by emersonrsantos »

MauranKilom wrote: post #11

A few years ago, I made a new year's resolution to be more forgiving to myself. At the time, I would feel miserable at the end of the day for, say, not doing laundry even though I had resolved to do so. I would downright hate myself for not getting this simple task done despite having had the time. So, that year, whenever I would have such a thought, I'd tell myself that I forgive my past self. "It's ok!" And it has…

Be good to yourself, this is the true antidepressant.

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#77

Post by jraph »

Put "Good Enough" next to your first name and be proud.

If you find yourself perfectionist at work, maybe it is just a matter of caring less about work, just enough [1]. It will probably help you meet the deadlines, push less time pressure on everything and everybody and overall get you better outcomes. If something needs to be improved it will. Or it won't, but maybe it's not your problem anymore then. Worse is sometimes better. Sure, keep a high enough standard, but I don't need to tell you that if you are perfectionist, right? Maybe ask people around about that in case of doubt.

In your hobbies, if you find yourself wanting to achieve results you don't reach often enough: first, they are hobbies. You already win if you enjoyed doing something. Then, lower the bar. Take all the time you want on part that interest you. Over-engineer as hell those things if you take pleasure in doing it. But otherwise make it work even if it's worse.

If you program in your hobbies, just write this ugly thing that works. Copy paste that spaghetti code and make it work. It's misaligned but usable? Don't care. Put FIXMEs and move on. You'll have all the time to refine later if it's important to you, when you won't have the burden to make it work anymore and you'll have achieved something, reached a motivating and gratifying step where something works even partly.

Save yourself from cognitive load caused by the need to solve everything at the same time, perfectly and that will stand in your way.

It's less efficient, but it's more efficient.

[1] I wrote about this two days ago in another context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28365945

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#78

Post by mlac »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #55

I was diagnosed in my thirties with a congenital condition. I decided "I need to start making more Bs if I'm ever going to get anywhere." Twenty years later, I look back on my high expectations and realize that I was inculcated with them in childhood and also got a lot of support in childhood for being able to hit those performance marks in school. Growing up and leaving home meant I still had high expectations but I…

Along these lines, I find it to be really important to have things that I do not do well, and that I do not optimize.

I tend to research and over-optimize every activity I do. Part of that is the fun I find in a hobby - I like to learn how to do it at the absolute best level (or how the professionals do it). But in doing so, I've found that I need to be OK not being the best, and when I don't hit that mark, improve my appreciation for those who can (and justify paying the professionals to do it).

An example is BBQ. I did tons of research, and there are setups that run $1,000s. One can spend days cooking, and months to procure and dry wood. It can range from fully manual to fully automated. I enjoy making good BBQ, but have accepted the fact that enjoying the research and the process is as important as the end product, and if the end product is great, then it's a bonus. Usually I can be consistently good, if not a little dry.

Same thing with cooking. I am not often restaurant quality with most of my dishes, because restaurants can use ingredients that don't make sense at home. But I try to aim for excellence, and when I miss, I get slightly better, and appreciate when someone serves a truly excellent meal.

Music is another thing. Few people know that John Mayer is playing a $15,000+ guitar [1] through a $7,000 pedal (among others) [2] hooked up to an amplifier that you cannot purchase unless the guy decides to make it for you, at which point it could be $150k or more [3]. Do I need that equipment to play guitar? Absolutely not, but learning about it was interesting and gave me a better appreciation for what I'm seeing on stage (and why spending $100 to see it and hear it in person may be worth it).

I also find starting with the extremes and dialing it back allows me to better decide the potential for a given hobby. If I don't do research, I may be running into pain that I didn't realize was easily fixed (e.g. getting a glove in golf).

That said, being OK with being OK is something I'm working on.

[1] https://reverb.com/item/5564625-prs-john-mayer-super-eagle-i... [2]https://reverb.com/p/klon-centaur-horsie [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumble_Amplifiers

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#79

Post by jkhdigital »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #68
MauranKilom wrote: post #11

A few years ago, I made a new year's resolution to be more forgiving to myself. At the time, I would feel miserable at the end of the day for, say, not doing laundry even though I had resolved to do so. I would downright hate myself for not getting this simple task done despite having had the time. So, that year, whenever I would have such a thought, I'd tell myself that I forgive my past self. "It's ok!" And it has…

The problem Is I see reminders to my failures constantly (I have mint.com open on one of my monitors). I can’t easily escape being an abject failure because of my lack of social class and status.

That’s why people do things like religion—it gives you a way to establish purpose and meaning that is independent of your economic standing or potential.

Re: The goal of standards is to improve our future actions

#80

Post by mgkimsal »

jraph wrote: post #77

Put "Good Enough" next to your first name and be proud. If you find yourself perfectionist at work, maybe it is just a matter of caring less about work, just enough [1]. It will probably help you meet the deadlines, push less time pressure on everything and everybody and overall get you better outcomes. If something needs to be improved it will. Or it won't, but maybe it's not your problem anymore then. Worse is some…

> push less time pressure on everything and everybody and overall get you better outcomes. If something needs to be improved it will. Or it won't, but then maybe it's not your problem anymore.

Most of what I do I'm either solely or primarily responsible for, and when something breaks, it comes back to me. I've rarely been in situations where something wasn't my problem. By the time it was a 'problem', if someone was contacting me, it was almost definitionally my problem. Not sure how to square that with the advice above, as tempting as it sounds.

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