Poll: I just would like to get a “hands up” if anyone else got significant chest and heart pain from the mRNA vaccines, please comment. Thanks
Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
251–260 of 354 posts
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Covid vaccinated. Even if the former is low, there's no downside to getting the vaccine anyways. I can kind of understand if someone is avoiding the vaccine and also isolating themselves to protect against the virus, but I really just don't understand the risk-be…
> The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Covid vaccinated Honest question, there were studies about the effect of the vaccine on hospitalizations. But is there any studies about the effect on long covid ? And especially is there studies showing that people under the age of 40 in healthy condition have…
> And especially is there studies showing that people under the age of 40 in healthy condition have any benefit regarding long covid by taking the vaccine ?
If you mean risk of long-covid after getting covid with vs. without the vaccine: of course we don't know, but it's pretty likely the vaccine significantly decreases the chance of long covid. Since long-covid correlates well with infection severity, and the vaccine is particularly good at preventing severe infections.
If you mean the chance of people who already have long-covid recovering after getting vaccinated - it's pretty low.
> Well, some people don't like to take drugs, so if they know that their immune system can cope with it (even if that means difficult time for a short time) they would prefer it.
Ok. But still, "drug" is an arbitrary label, the vaccine consists of mRNA and other compounds which are in your body. I get taking risks and not being over-careful, like I definitely get why lockdowns / even masking in some situations is a bad idea. But the risk of not getting vaccinated is an unnecessary risk, kind of like driving without a seatbelt or riding without a helmet, except you only have to wear the helmet initially (idk I can't think of a better analogy).
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
For me, it was when the Swedish approach was widely derided even though it was logically sound. (isolate the at-risk, everyone else get on with life and build herd immunity).
Interesting. I never thought it was logically sound, and my impression is that the the data has borne that out, basically all along (and that it was quite valuable to have Sweden and New Zealand as the two outlier examples for what it looked like to handle the pandemic especially poorly and especially well). A recent example with some hard numbers: "Sweden has recorded more COVID-19 cases per capita than most countri…
>roughly 11 out of every 100 people in Sweden have been diagnosed with COVID-19, compared with 9.4 out of every 100 in the UK and 7.4 per 100 in Italy
If the goal is to shoot for herd immunity, then you would need 40-60% of population to have antibodies. No way to get from A -> B without people 'catching it'
At some point it needs to be accepted that Covid is now endemic and is 'never going away'. Trying to stave it off with leaky vaccines is like trying safeguard your 0-day with a leaky firewall.
Logical and medically minded people should focus on developing and testing therapeutics to reduce the need for hospitalizations. Sadly that will require loss of profits to very large companies.
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If the chance of me getting hospitalized is so low to begin with I just don't think this is true. Again, look at the states in the US with the lowest levels of vaccination. They are running out of ICU beds due to the amount of cases. I'm not sure where you're located. Maybe there's a low amount of cases there, but in general, the risk of being hospitalized (and maybe not having a bed to go to) is rather high. The d…
Thank you for the rapid and informative reply. I appreciate it (esp when the topic is a bit politicized right now) I'm not from US so I haven't checked the stats closely for those states. My current city of residence is Tokyo. Afaik right now hospitalization seems quite bad, and there's no strict lockdown. I'm trying to work from home and dodge rush hours as much as possible to reduce the risk for now. Do you have an…
> But last I heard the vaccine is not that effective to Delta variant.
It is not as effective as it was against earlier variants when it comes to preventing you from getting infected with COVID, but it is still very effective at preventing you from getting seriously ill or dying from COVID.
COVID is likely heading to endemic status where it is something we all get now and then, but we all have immunity from previous infections or vaccinations that largely protects us from serious illness when we do get it. In that world it is only your first infection that is dangerous for most people.
Vaccination essentially makes your first infection count as a second infection.
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
The claims that rare side effects have been well-characterized and can be predicted from the mechanism alone are simply not true - the FDA itself required further postmarketing studies (to be finished around 2023) as a requirement in their approval letter. The foundation of convincing people that taking the vaccine is safer than not taking it cannot be the false claim that the probabilities of each side effect are kn…
That’s absurd. Yes, I still test my code. But when I write it, I do it with the lessons I’ve learned over decades, and it’s usually close to working before the first test comes into the picture. That’s where we are with vaccine production: we’ve been cranking them out for decades, and the process is so robust that failures at in the six plus nines range of outliers.
I think you might be overestimating the success rate of drug discovery and underestimating the complexity of the situation. Starting from 10,000 compounds chosen on the basis of reasonable mechanistic or chemical arguments, one or two working drugs are typically discovered.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Drug-discovery-and-devel...
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…
The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Covid vaccinated. Even if the former is low, there's no downside to getting the vaccine anyways. I can kind of understand if someone is avoiding the vaccine and also isolating themselves to protect against the virus, but I really just don't understand the risk-be…
the fact is, no vaccines against coronaviruses exist.
no one.
all and every trial vaccine resulted in death of the vaccinated animals.
not immediately, but after a while.
it was the ADE.
do you still want a try?
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s absurd. Yes, I still test my code. But when I write it, I do it with the lessons I’ve learned over decades, and it’s usually close to working before the first test comes into the picture. That’s where we are with vaccine production: we’ve been cranking them out for decades, and the process is so robust that failures at in the six plus nines range of outliers.
I think you might be overestimating the success rate of drug discovery and underestimating the complexity of the situation. Starting from 10,000 compounds chosen on the basis of reasonable mechanistic or chemical arguments, one or two working drugs are typically discovered. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Drug-discovery-and-devel...
Like the rest of engineering, you very rarely start with a novel target.
You’re building things from a library of tested techniques.
Vaccines aren’t drugs.
They’re a method of delivering material to the immune system for it to do its thing.
We do that by finding the thing we want to present, finding a pipeline to extract that, and finding a delivery mechanism that is tested and compatible.
We don’t “discover” a new flu vaccine ever my season, we put together this seasons release.
That’s why it didn’t take years to design and release a new vaccine for covid: we have the technology already, we just needed to pick the payload and select the rocket best suited for the job.
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#258I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…
>The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. >it would also invade the actual cell. Before complaining about misinformation, you might want to freshen up on your basic microbiology. I get that this has become more about the narrative than the facts, but this comment gets quite a few fundamentals very very wrong for it to be up top with th…
You're right, and I agree about reviewing basic microbiology, thanks for that suggestion.
In terms of the quote about the spike protein, someone else thankfully corrected that (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382167). In terms of the quote about invading the cell, I meant that the SARS-CoV-2 virus would also invade the cell nucleus (yes, saying just cell was not correct because the cytoplasm is part of the cell). Those two quotes were the two specific things that were incorrect about my post, that I'm aware of, and I'm happy that others corrected those.
I posted what I did to counter some of the more ridiculous claims I've seen made, not just on HN, but also elsewhere. I consider HN to be a great source of information and I wanted to contribute to that. My intention was to pass on information that I was happy to learn and which helped me understand what was in the mRNA vaccines and how they work (at least at a high level). I would hope that anyone would evaluate and research for themselves, whether they hear it on HN or elsewhere.
If you would care to elaborate any further, I'd be happy to listen, so that I can learn more myself.
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#259I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…
I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…
Think of it this way, you have two choices:
1. You have a 0.0001% risk of death, and a 0.001% risk of hospitalization, and will maybe spread covid to 5-8 people. Long term effects unknown.
2. You have a 0.00001% risk of death, and a 0.0001% risk of hospitalization, and will maybe spread covid to 1-2 people. Long term effects unknown.
Which choice would you take?
(note the 2nd option is a conservative estimate of the effects of the vaccine, and the odds are probably less than what I wrote)
Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…
> Why should I take a vaccine > when it is now known that vaccinated people can still spread the virus Because just because you "can" doesn't mean that you're as likely to[1]: > Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time […] This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus fo…
"scientists have developed vaccines before."
they never did against coronaviruses.
their vaccines killed the trial animals after a short period of time.
every time they tried.
what should be different with these new "warp speed" vaccines?