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System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

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Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#401

Post by LocalPCGuy »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #337
lathiat wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As this thread is highlighting, in my experience there are two kinds of keyboard users. Those that love their numberpad, and those that never use it. There seems to rarely be people in the middle. On desktops it mostly doesn't matter because you can shift the keyboard over relative to the screen. On laptops this translates into people completely loathing or loving the laptop entirely :) Personally in the never use it…

> On desktops it mostly doesn't matter because you can shift the keyboard over relative to the screen. It does matter. The arrow key cluster and numpad take a lot of space, which means the left side of the keyboard (where asdf / your left hand are) and your mouse have to be very far from each other. This leads to either putting the keyboard's letter key section in the center, making your mouse be uncomfortably far to…

I really don't see how it is "too wide for good ergonomics" as you imply if a keyboard has a number pad. I think you exaggerate the amount of difference it makes to try to make a point based on your anecdotal experience which was also based on a poor desk design rather than the KB/mouse layout alone.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#402

Post by LocalPCGuy »

83457 wrote: post #23
protomyth wrote: post #2

I wish a person could order one of these without the numeric keypad. I deeply hate being off-center to the screen when typing on these larger portables.

I used to use keypad all the time so when I got first laptop for work having one was my preference. I regretted that decision as the keyboard was more narrow than it otherwise needed to be. On a side note, I love the CM Storm Quick Fire TK keyboard I have with brown switches. It has no arrow/home vertical area, instead when you turn the numpad off the keys act like that slice. I wish more keyboards were like it. Not…

To your last point, I really think the vast majority of users do not understand what slices on keyboards are, much less how to use them.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#403

Post by jklinger410 »

veidr wrote: post #382

I love System76, and I use and love Pop!_OS (despite the offensive and undignified name). I tried to buy their beefy Thelios desktop with wood paneling (but they don't ship to my country). But... on what planet is a 1080p screen still OK for a mid-range or higher laptop in 2021? For laptops, I've used Apples and Dells over the past 7 years and I don't think any of them were that low resolution. I want to buy their sh…

> (despite the offensive and undignified name)

Would love to hear what is offensive and undignified about it.

> But I wouldn't buy a 1080p laptop in this day and age for any price.

Most laptops are 1080p (or less), but I guess you're allowed to have that opinion.

---

Personally I feel opposite about them. I like their hardware, hate the OS. POP OS! is ugly, full stop. They'd be better off going with Arch or Fedora base so they can keep closer to modern GNOME and potentially offer other DEs easier. Every beta they ship for POP is super broken in one way or another, and I hate cosmic, so I rock Arch on it.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#404

Post by OJFord »

xxs wrote: post #400
OJFord wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> >Dents > That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself. Would it? If I dropped an aluminium bodied laptop like a Macbook or HP Envy, I'd expect it might scuff and slightly dent at the point of impact. If I dropped the cheapest plastic bodied thing from Currys/Walmart/whatever, I'd expect it might scuff and crack the plastic between screws or something. What top finish would you apply to a…

I would not consider cracks "dents". I already mentioned the cheap 'ABS' plastic, they would crack (also it's not UV stable). You can look up PA6-GF30 (nylon, 30% glass fiber reinforced) tools and they survive ~2m (6 feet) drop tests. Laptops won't do that as their screens would crash. Here: a popular video[0] of some massive abuse of a multimeter. Again, a good plastic with glass or carbon fiber reinforcement would…

No, neither would I. I was agreeing with the commenter you replied to, that I'd expect a plastic laptop to crack, and a metal one to dent. If it has to be damaged, I'd prefer the dent.

You said above that that was more to do with 'top finish' than 'material'; that's what I was responding to - how would you finish crackable plastic material to make it dent like aluminium/alloy instead.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#405

Post by jjoonathan »

Koshkin wrote: post #43
jjoonathan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love numeric keypads. I don't have to type in big chunks of numbers very often (OCR and GPIB go a long way) but when I do, numeric pads make me hate life a lot less.

I prefer the hidden one. https://www.dummies.com/computers/pcs/the-hidden-numeric-key...

I've never been able to get comparable ergonomics out of these. Maybe I just haven't been forced to use them enough -- or maybe the increased travel distance really does matter. I could see it going either way.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#406

Post by reirob »

protomyth wrote: post #2

I wish a person could order one of these without the numeric keypad. I deeply hate being off-center to the screen when typing on these larger portables.

Absolutely agree, to a point that I don't even know which laptop to buy - almost all 15 inch have no centred keyboard. I don't understand how touch typers can work with these. I tried for a few days. What a nightmare.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#407

Post by occoder »

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #399
protomyth wrote: post #2

I wish a person could order one of these without the numeric keypad. I deeply hate being off-center to the screen when typing on these larger portables.

I will never buy another laptop with a "short" right-shift key and the up-arrow next to it. For coding, it SUCKS to miss hit that and I never got use to it on the one laptop I've had with a keyboard like that.

I must admit that I've never used such a keyboard before, but it seems better to me than half-height arrow keys, or heaven forbid, half-height Up and Down arrows but full-height Left and Right arrows, what an abomination!

What I don't understand, if they're going to include a numeric keypad on the right, is why they didn't make the bottom of the numeric keypad the arrow keys. Looking at [1], 2 should be Up, 0 should be Down, Right should be Left, . should be Right. So Num Lock should be Insert, 7 should be Delete, / should be Home, 8 should be End, * should be PageUp, 9 should be PageDown.

I'd imagine that most techies use the arrow keys and Home/End/PageUp/PageDown keys a lot more than the numeric keys, why not make that the primary layout, and be numeric keys only when Num Lock is on?

Am I crazy? Or does nobody give keyboards one ounce of thought ever?

[1] https://images.prismic.io/system76/0dccf217-22af-4e7e-adc9-e...

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#408

Post by mercutio2 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #295
mercutio2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have embarrassingly parallel loads, sure. But: CPU Single Thread Rating Apple M1 - 3,778 AMD 5700U - 2,636 suggests that "is faster" is going to depend on your perspective. Most loads I care about are single threaded. The 5700U is 8% faster on a synthetic multi-core benchmark vs. 30% slower on a single core benchmark. I know which CPU I'd choose if I had a choice.

Woah. Nice quote about "CPU Single Thread Rating". Can you share a source? I can understand why there is this real push to reverse engineer the M1 platform to get Linux running on it! The efficiency per watt is amazing.

I just pulled that from the link I was responding to!

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#409

Post by downWidOutaFite »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #121
SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very distinguishable after daily use of a MacBook Pro.

My 16" Macbook Pro's display is certainly beautiful but the battery life is pathetic. If lower resolution really did save battery then I think I would make the tradeoff, especially since everybody runs the resolution scaled down from 3072x1920 so the only thing you gain from it is the subpixel sharpness.

Why is this downvoted? Do people think Macbook Pros have good battery life?

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#410

Post by veidr »

jklinger410 wrote: post #403
veidr wrote: post #382

I love System76, and I use and love Pop!_OS (despite the offensive and undignified name). I tried to buy their beefy Thelios desktop with wood paneling (but they don't ship to my country). But... on what planet is a 1080p screen still OK for a mid-range or higher laptop in 2021? For laptops, I've used Apples and Dells over the past 7 years and I don't think any of them were that low resolution. I want to buy their sh…

> (despite the offensive and undignified name) Would love to hear what is offensive and undignified about it. > But I wouldn't buy a 1080p laptop in this day and age for any price. Most laptops are 1080p (or less), but I guess you're allowed to have that opinion. --- Personally I feel opposite about them. I like their hardware, hate the OS. POP OS! is ugly, full stop. They'd be better off going with Arch or Fedora ba…

Undignified is just a matter of taste, I guess, but it is offensive to me when companies expect (and even 'demand' sometimes, in their press guidelines) you to deviate from standard captialization norms.

I have an ipad, but Apple can fuck right off with the capital P.

But putting an exclamation point right in the middle of your product name is even worse. Like why don't they just call it "Hey! I'm An Asshole! OS" at that point.

I love their hardware, too, except their incomprehensible low-res screen fetish. (They even offer you a low-res desktop display option when you buy a $10,000 workstation.)

I mean even the 13" MacBook Pro in 2014 was 2560x1600. All my Dell laptops were at least 1440p and since a few years back, full 4K.

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