Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#161

Post by manofmanysmiles » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

Certain virus do in fact modify the DNA in cells[1].

From the article:

> Some types of virus, such as retroviruses, integrate their genetic material (including the new gene) into a chromosome in the human cell.

Therefore the claim that an injection of RNA could modify your DNA is possible. Whether the COVID injections do this is a different story, and seems unlikely.

[1] https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/therapy/proce...

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#162

Post by NalNezumi » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #131

NalNezumi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…

> If the chance of me getting hospitalized is so low to begin with I just don't think this is true. Again, look at the states in the US with the lowest levels of vaccination. They are running out of ICU beds due to the amount of cases. I'm not sure where you're located. Maybe there's a low amount of cases there, but in general, the risk of being hospitalized (and maybe not having a bed to go to) is rather high. The d…

Thank you for the rapid and informative reply. I appreciate it (esp when the topic is a bit politicized right now)

I'm not from US so I haven't checked the stats closely for those states. My current city of residence is Tokyo. Afaik right now hospitalization seems quite bad, and there's no strict lockdown. I'm trying to work from home and dodge rush hours as much as possible to reduce the risk for now.

Do you have any numbers of "old vs young" hospitalization in the majority unvacinated area? And stats such as "young vaccinated vs young unvacinated" would also be interesting to see I would guess.

I've heard about the delta variant being more dangerous to the young, so that's for sure a important point. But last I heard the vaccine is not that effective to Delta variant, and also the delta variant difference seems to not be that much bigger according to this[0] study I found Jeremy Howard link on Twitter (I've only read the summary so I might be wrong on this)

Edit: thanks for the link hackingforfun, I'll be sure to take a look at it (tomorrow as it's late night here right now)

[0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#163

Post by incrudible » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #137

incrudible wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever is causing the severe side-effects, it's probably not the MRNA or the spike protein. With Pfizer/Moderna vaccines, it's likely the lipid nanoparticles causing Myocarditis. With the J&J vaccine, it's likely the viral vector that is causing TTS. Both technologies have never been widely deployed before. The fact that we could not predict and still do not understand these side-effects is quite concerning. It als…

I've read that Myocarditis can happen with actual COVID cases as well [1]. To me that makes sense, considering that the mRNA-based vaccines generate a portion of the spike protein similar to the actual virus. [1] https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/comment/myocarditis-covi...

This doesn't explain that the viral-vector vaccines generally don't cause Myocarditis, or at least not anywhere near as much as the LNP vaccines.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#164

Post by NalNezumi » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

Griffinsauce wrote: post #132

NalNezumi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…

> when it is now known that vaccinated people can still spread the virus I imagine this is not binary but you are likely to be less sick and less contagious.

That's a good point. The article that mentioned it (I think it was based on study in Boston or Manhattan?) did mention that vaccinated people carried/spread it for _shorter amount of time_

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#165

Post by hackingforfun » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #153

hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

> Look at the states with the highest amount of unvaccinated individuals in the US. They are running out of hospital beds [1]. This is not about taking our freedoms, this is about getting this under control. > [1] https://fortune.com/2021/08/25/states-icu-beds-covid-cases-d ... I can't see the article due to paywall, but based on how you're presenting I have to say: Due to the phrasing it isn't a straight lie, but it…

From the article: As of Tuesday Aug. 24, six states—Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas—had less than 10% of ICU beds available according to data from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

I'm happy to hear Idaho is fine. It doesn't sound like these other states are.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#166

Post by andred14 » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

Instead of listening to the lying news or bought off doctors and politicians do a search for blood analysis of the vaccinated.

These are starting to come out and it is not looking good AT ALL. There is long term permanent damage to blood taking place.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#167

Post by 3l3c7r1c » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

tumblewit wrote: post #32

I have little understanding of this but someone who actually works on vaccines told me this theory: Your body upon coming in contact with the vaccine starts to product antibodies (the first shot). This is generally enough for a normal immune system to fight the disease if in the future the body was to come in contact with the virus. The second shot is for hyper immunity after 4 weeks. What it does is that it basicall…

Another benefit is cell memory. If you see the vaccines kids get, almost all are multiple shots. Including 3-4 shots for Hep-B. It's nothing new. The reason is body takes repeat threat more seriously and builds the cell memory. So even when the antibody is gone the cell memory tells body to act quickly and what to do.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#168

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

haswell wrote: post #127

whatshisface wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows you can't predict what a treatment will do just by knowing its mechanism - if you could, clinical trials would never fail. Talking about the mechanism is the least effective way to explain how it's safe, because most people realize that well-controlled studies are the only true authority.

A hypothesis still must precede a trial, and many hypotheses are formed based on an understanding of fundamental concepts/mechanisms and prior studies. Studies are still required because a hypothesis is just that - a hypothesis - but I wouldn't completely dismiss a discussion of the mechanism, because this may still provide meaningful context and/or help form an initial understanding of risk before having real study…

There are a few hypotheses suggested by the higher-count events in VAERS, as well as the standard ones checked in postmarket studies (effects on pregnant women and children in particular). I agree that the mechanism is a good way to do hypothesis generation, but it's not a solid argument for the safety of a treatment. It is really only an antidote to specific, hallucinatory claims, like the line about it "changing your DNA."

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#169

Post by mrtesthah » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

sim_card_map wrote: post #150

hackingforfun wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the chance of me getting hospitalized is so low to begin with I just don't think this is true. Again, look at the states in the US with the lowest levels of vaccination. They are running out of ICU beds due to the amount of cases. I'm not sure where you're located. Maybe there's a low amount of cases there, but in general, the risk of being hospitalized (and maybe not having a bed to go to) is rather high. The d…

It is true. There's an Oxford Covid risk calculator, and for an average 20 something person, the risk of hospitalization is ~0.002%. https://qcovid.org/

Has this been updated for the delta variant which is estimated be twice as likely to cause hospitalization?

https://www.politico.eu/article/delta-coronavirus-variant-do...

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#170

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #133

graeme wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the original acute concern. Long run we still don’t know if it will have effects on brain function etc. There are some disturbing lines of evidence on this front. For example the UK biobank showing grey matter loss post infection including in mild cases: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v...

i remember this study, but i'm surprised we don't have more papers on the same topic since. It seemed like a pretty big news, and yet i don't hear people recommending mass-vaccination mention it. Any idea why ?

[deleted]