Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

blog.pragmaticengineer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 202 posts

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#51

Post by zoomablemind »

nkingsy wrote: post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

>...I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted again this cycle.

Would your perception about the org, team and self really change if you would get promoted?

If that's the case, then you could try to promote yourself. Especially, now that you've got a concrete result. It's just to show openly to the org and team that the promotion is what you want.

Package it with some outlook about how your contribution in the new role would boost the team and how timely you feel this is in your professional growth.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#53

Post by QuercusMax »

pcmoney wrote: post #16

“For example, a senior title at Big Tech typically expects more from an engineer than a small developer agency, a non-tech-first company, or a recently founded start-up does” This is simply not true. Seniors at FAANG type companies simply dont do that much. Typically have a narrow specialty and a good grasp on how it fits into the larger Org’s strategy etc. Senior engineers at a small shop do EVERYTHING. Front end, b…

Your mileage may definitely vary, especially based on what kind of team you're in.

Senior SWE at a small company was significantly less responsibility than Senior SWE at Google. As a Senior at Google, I was doing almost everything you say a "small company" Senior does, aside from DBA work and sales calls.

I suppose if you're just a cog in the machine of some huge org like Ads or Search you might be right, but a smaller product team might look a lot more like a small company than you might realize. There is a lot of extra overhead of various sorts, but I wouldn't say the responsibilities are significantly less.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#54

Post by whoknowswhat11 »

e1g wrote: post #48
azdle wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you me? I spent the last 3 years completely redeveloping the foundation of our platform which will save the company millions of dollars a year. I didn't do it alone or anything. But I started the project, was the only one to work on it full time throughout the whole project, defined the underlying architecture, and implemented most of the lowest layers. I poured all my energy into the project. We launched beginni…

It's a signal from the market ("employer") that what you currently offer is not what they currently value. If you desire greater rewards/ recognition, you need to discover what they value and decide if you want to offer that. Developers expect that work such as "refactoring", "platform architecture", "R&D", "investing into the future" has some intrinsic value to the business. At the company level, work such as "knowl…

If you have a champion in mgmt things like "refactoring" or "platform architecture" can pay off. Please refactor this app off our oracle DB so we can say $10M - you will be fine and they may start slotting you into key business areas.

If you are toiling doing platform, refactoring on a product without a ton of love - then yeah - that may be pretty low visibility for most folks.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#55

Post by zip1234 »

angrais wrote: post #46
mabbo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of variability here. I've met Principal Engineers at Amazon who never write a line of code and barely do any mentoring (I don't like those PEs). But I've also worked with Senior and Principal Engineers who do incredible work, mentor, truly lead . They are force multipliers, making adjustments to the course of the organization in ways that have huge benefits and gains. And if you dropped these pe…

Given your emphasis on lead, do you have any recommendations for books or blogs to provide insight into how to be such a good leader?

The Army has a manual on leadership that is really quite good. There are obviously parts that are not applicable but much of it is very useful.

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN20039-ADP_6-...

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#56

Post by eru »

gringoDan wrote: post #39
nkingsy wrote: post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

My conclusion after working in tech for a few years: If you don't want to play the politics game, just interview with new companies and get a new role and a significant pay bump every 1-2 years. Sad that the incentives are set up this way.

It's not that sad, at least the churn makes knowledge and best practices bubble through the industry.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#57

Post by MattGaiser »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #42
MattGaiser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things I have noticed in both my full time jobs at this point is that my direct managers have had no idea what I do day to day. There are entire weeks where I could have achieved absolutely nothing and I am not sure if it would have been noticed. And that is probably not conducive to promotion as nobody who has power has any idea what I do.

> One of the things I have noticed in both my full time jobs at this point is that my direct managers have had no idea what I do day to day. FYI: This isn’t normal. It’s not even particularly common in the industry as a whole. It is, however, a hallmark of dysfunctional companies that are headed in the wrong direction. If you find yourself consistently stuck under clueless managers or working in companies that reward…

I am "reevaluating" my choice of companies for other reasons [0], but it is interesting to learn that this abnormal. That is an organizational thing, as my manager is part of the "leadership" team, so he often has wall to wall meetings.

I will be sure to inquire about this in interviews then. Thank you. I very much had the impression that management was often distant.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28353182

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#58

Post by staticelf »

I hate titles and I have worked in larger corporations and smaller ones and I very much prefer small businesses every time.

I would recommend Joshua Flukes videos on Odysee / Youtube. I think they're usually very spot on in pointing out some corporate BS and a lot of people can draw valuable lessons from that instead of having to burn themselves like a lot of us has done.

I have downleveled once in both salary and title because I got promised work that was good for society. Turns out it wasn't and it was all empty promises.

My only advice is to always go for stuff they cannot change like salary, other benefits like remote work (but that should be in the contract) and so on. Because with time, stuff will undoubtably change. People will quit, focus will be shifted etc but no one can take away your salary.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#59

Post by eru »

nine_zeros wrote: post #24
nkingsy wrote: post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

Leave. Burnout happens when outcome != expectations. Did you skill up? Switch jobs asap. Get yourself a 20% raise.

You can probably do better than 20%. Unless you have to stay in the same small metro area or so.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#60

Post by spoonjim »

azdle wrote: post #21
nkingsy wrote: post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

Are you me? I spent the last 3 years completely redeveloping the foundation of our platform which will save the company millions of dollars a year. I didn't do it alone or anything. But I started the project, was the only one to work on it full time throughout the whole project, defined the underlying architecture, and implemented most of the lowest layers. I poured all my energy into the project. We launched beginni…

Avoid all work besides that which is likely to get your boss’ boss promoted.
Post reply on HN