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The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

blog.pragmaticengineer.com

11–20 of 202 posts

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#11
post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

the trick is to disconnect, not try too hard, not take it personally, and learn to play the political games

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#12
post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

Transition from doing high quality work to just enough to recover from burnout and after a bit of time look for different employment.

I've been in a similar situation in the past and finding a different job solved the problem

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#13
post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

Honestly, you should leave. Everything is hot for developers right now. If they aren't recognizing your efforts, they will after you're gone.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#14
post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

>It’s been very strange to see the fruits of my labor benefit the org while feeling totally unrecognized outside of my team.

This is the norm in my company, and I suspect many others.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#15
If you’ve been in the tech industry long enough, you probably know that titles don’t mean much when comparing across different companies.

But titles are a constant discussion topic when I’ve mentored younger people. It’s a common tactic for smaller companies to try to lure juniors in by offering them more prestigious job titles. If you’re fresh out of college and half of your career advice comes from your parents’ outdated knowledge of how businesses work, it can be tempting to pick the job that offers the highest job title, ignoring other factors. Companies know this and use it to their advantage.

On the hiring side, titles on a resume don’t mean much unless it’s coming from a company with a well-known advancement structure. If you’re coming from a 50-person startup I’ve never heard of before, I don’t care if you’re a “software engineer” or “principal software architect”. I’m going to be asking you what you did, what you shipped, what your role was in decision making, and other questions to figure out how you fit into our advancement hierarchy.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#16
“For example, a senior title at Big Tech typically expects more from an engineer than a small developer agency, a non-tech-first company, or a recently founded start-up does”

This is simply not true. Seniors at FAANG type companies simply dont do that much. Typically have a narrow specialty and a good grasp on how it fits into the larger Org’s strategy etc.

Senior engineers at a small shop do EVERYTHING. Front end, back end, DBA work, training and upleveling juniors, PM work, sales calls and client support occasionally. Also more involved in product and strategy.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#17
post #8

I think the key takeaway is to never believe when someone says "Don't worry, you'll get promoted in no time".

This. Before accepting any offer, put all promises into writing. Attach milestones, even if you just make them up, i.e. salary will increase when company receives next funding round.

Send this to the employer. If they balk you know know they were just telling you what you wanted to hear. Be wary.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#18
post #11
post #5

I got down leveled when I moved to big tech. Spent two years completely remaking the product I was tasked to work on, while the two other engineers on my team, both a level above me, cheered me on and didn’t do much. I turned our product from a total waste about to be cancelled into a promising tech with some momentum, but I spent all my time coding instead of writing about coding, and I likely won’t get promoted aga…

the trick is to disconnect, not try too hard, not take it personally, and learn to play the political games

Oooor put in the minimum effort to tread water and collect that paycheck

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#19

The thing that many folks don't understand is that it's not that "Titles don't matter", it's that "Titles don't matter when compared across companies". There's not a universal definition of say, "senior software engineer", so comparing titles across companies will always be an apples/oranges exercise. Titles do matter, but only when in the proper context.

One area that was not discussed at length was the transition from a high tier to a medium tier. In that case the HR at the medium tier often put a lot of weight into the title. I have seen HR teams say thing like "That person was not a principal engineer in their previous job" so they need to come in at a lower level here. They (HR) often don't recognized tiers within the industry, and use titles as a proxy for skill. Many HR staff view a change in title as a direct indication of skill, and when they see someone go from 'Sr. Software Engineer' to 'Software Engineer' they assume a skill demotion. In one of my earlier companies we used the title 'member of technical staff' in a pretty broad context, and I later heard that it was problematic for some people in getting interviews in future jobs. It is stupid, of course, but also a reality.

Re: The Seniority Roller Coaster and Down-Leveling in Tech

#20
post #9
post #2

I made a fairly popular reddit post recently on how I down-leveled my career in recent years. Each time I down-level, I get a raise in salary -- it's pretty great. What that permitted me to learn about myself is that - at the end of the day - I just like solving interesting and challenging problems, working with colleagues as equals, and creating products and solutions that I'm proud of. I have utterly no interest an…

I mean at the end of the day the title is only to feed your own ego. At family gathering nobody's gonna ask you why you were Principal and now you're Staff. I find no difference between being called a "Director" or a "Manager", because the title alone tells me absolutely nothing Reminds me of American Psycho, where everybody is a damn Vice President (reflective of the time)

> Reminds me of American Psycho, where everybody is a damn Vice President (reflective of the time)

Reflective of the industry, really. It’s still that way in banking.

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