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System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

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Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#361

Post by aorth »

Haegin wrote: post #243
jiggawatts wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You interact with a computer only through the screen, speakers, microphone, and keyboard. So of course, the advertisement for every laptop emphasises internal component metrics that don't actually matter that much. "Now with X8-7820Z SUPER!" or whatever. Instead they have terrible screens, tinny speakers, noisy microphones, and non-customisable keyboard layouts. The latter of which are always cramped, and I mean alwa…

I believe the Framework Laptop offers that, though it's very new and the non US keyboard options are available yet. They're aiming for a pretty decent list by end of year including UK, French, Chinese, Korean, German and blank (both ANSI and ISO). https://frame.work (I'm in no way affiliated, just eyeing them up for my next laptop purchase)

I'm in no way affiliated with Framework either. Just saw it mentioned few times in tech press recently. Finally watched some video reviews today and have to say I'm very impressed. Definitely eyeing them as a replacement when my ThinkPad turns four years old next year.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#364

Post by INTPenis »

Fatalist_ma wrote: post #181

Uhh I understand that good Linux support is valuable, but the price premium for that is just too high. For the base variant(5500u, 8gb, 240gb): Pangolin - 1200$ Lenovo Ideapad 3 15 - 430$[1] For a higher-end variant(5700u, 16gb, 500gb): Pangolin - 1542$ HP 15z - 640$[2] I admit these are the absolute cheapest ones I could find(using noteb.com), but even the more premium laptops like Thinkpads are way cheaper(and AFAI…

Today you can get a Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 13.3" Ryzen 7, 16G RAM, 1T Disk, QHD screen for about the same price.

And in september and november Lenovo will launch additional QHD IdeaPad Ryzen models for an even lower price.

QHD (1440 resolution) is important to me because I've become accustomed to it on my workstations. And my work got me a Thinkpad Yoga X1 4th gen which has an internal resolution of 2560x1440 so now I just can't go lower than that.

And yes I am a full time Linux user.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#365

Post by chrismorgan »

ayushnix wrote: post #352
chrismorgan wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14″ is an uncomfortable size for integral scaling: past 1366×768 (112ppi), all of the popular sizes call for fractional scaling: in my rough guide of 110–140ppi, that’s about 110–140% for 1080p (so the 125% you cited is good), about 150–190% for 1440p, and about 225–285% for 4K. (13.3″ works better: 100% for 1366×768, 120–150% for 1080p so no integer there, 160–200% for 1440p, 240–300% for 4K.) Fractional scaling in…

> Fractional scaling in Sway doesn’t degrade quality in any way in Wayland windows: it leaves the scaling to the app to execute, and I haven’t come across a single app getting it wrong. Funny you say that considering Firefox goes haywire if you use it on Sway with fractional scaling. https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6432 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6426 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6147 Other…

Those issues are all for any scaling, not just fractional—the narrative was just muddied because it was first reported by users of fractional scaling. gtk!3898 fixes #6426, and probably the other two too because they seem to all be manifestations of the one root cause. (Incidentally, remember Firefox uses X11 unless you manually turn on its experimental Wayland support via MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1.)

Tooltips are working in all the Wayland Qt apps that I have (marble-qt, zeal-git, musescore, telegram-desktop).

If you have an AUR helper, replacing {sway,wlroots,xorg-xwayland} with {sway,wlroots,xorg-xwayland}-hidpi-git is really easy and not at all slow, though at least sway and wlroots do interdepend so that if you upgrade one you should rebuild the other or things may break (happened to me a couple of months back, there was a .so version bump). I decided that I’d rather have not-quite-perfect scaling and any package management concerns, rather than having XWayland content always look terrible. And remember that’s true of any scaling factor other than one.

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#366

Post by teekert »

cassepipe wrote: post #168
teekert wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System76 is nice, in this podcast the CEO is interviewed: [0]. He is dedicated to transparency, open source and privacy. They’re worth some extra money to me. Although I’m still waiting for their custom designed, all aluminium top of the line laptop :) [0]: https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/linux-unplugged/id6875...

Is this custom design all-aluminum design on their road map? I'd buy it, I'd order it next year and pay right now even. The only thing preventing from buying one of their laptop is I am wary of all plastic laptops that break apart after five years although they are working perfectly. Basically I just want a MacBook that runs Linux perfectly.

They been planning it for years [0]. I guess experiences with their high end keyboard [1] will teach them valuable lessons, the podcast I posted is mainly about that keyboard and the manufacturing challenges. I indeed also hope for a MBP equivalent (non-clevo) System76 laptop.

[0]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/11/20/syste...

[1]: https://system76.com/accessories/launch

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#367

Post by mijoharas »

nicholasjarnold wrote: post #114
jandrese wrote: post #9

The specs page is a bit vague in places. Graphics AMD Radeon™ Graphics Storage 1 x M.2 SSD(SATA or PCIe NVMe). Up to 2TB total. In the configurator you have to pay attention to the read speeds to figure out if you are getting a SATA or PCIe drive. There is no indication for which brand of drive they are using. I have a few SSD controllers that are on my do not buy list, like anything made by Sandforce[1] after we los…

> There is no indication for which brand of drive they are using. Yes, though they tend to use quality parts. My 2019 Darter Pro (darp5) was configured with a one of the NVMe options and shipped with a 'Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus'. No complaints on hardware quality or longevity so far.

it's very interesting you should mention that SSD. I saw an article the other day about Samsung swapping parts in that drive[0]. (Basically, newer versions of that drive are much worse than older ones).

[0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/samsung-seemingly-ca...

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#368

Post by mijoharas »

ayushnix wrote: post #352
chrismorgan wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14″ is an uncomfortable size for integral scaling: past 1366×768 (112ppi), all of the popular sizes call for fractional scaling: in my rough guide of 110–140ppi, that’s about 110–140% for 1080p (so the 125% you cited is good), about 150–190% for 1440p, and about 225–285% for 4K. (13.3″ works better: 100% for 1366×768, 120–150% for 1080p so no integer there, 160–200% for 1440p, 240–300% for 4K.) Fractional scaling in…

> Fractional scaling in Sway doesn’t degrade quality in any way in Wayland windows: it leaves the scaling to the app to execute, and I haven’t come across a single app getting it wrong. Funny you say that considering Firefox goes haywire if you use it on Sway with fractional scaling. https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6432 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6426 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6147 Other…

I've got some more anecdata around this. Chrome tooltips get a bit funky with fractional scaling on wayland (using chrome's ozone wayland platform interface).

(Either that, or it's something weird with my sway/monitor configuration, but I don't have anything unusual).

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#369

Post by ayushnix »

chrismorgan wrote: post #365
ayushnix wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fractional scaling in Sway doesn’t degrade quality in any way in Wayland windows: it leaves the scaling to the app to execute, and I haven’t come across a single app getting it wrong. Funny you say that considering Firefox goes haywire if you use it on Sway with fractional scaling. https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6432 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6426 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6147 Other…

Those issues are all for any scaling, not just fractional—the narrative was just muddied because it was first reported by users of fractional scaling. gtk!3898 fixes #6426, and probably the other two too because they seem to all be manifestations of the one root cause. (Incidentally, remember Firefox uses X11 unless you manually turn on its experimental Wayland support via MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1.) Tooltips are working…

> gtk!3898 fixes #6426, and probably the other two too because they seem to all be manifestations of the one root cause.

I hope the fix lands on my desktop soon because I'm still facing those issues if I enable scaling. Even when I don't enable scaling and just use the Zoom option in Firefox, it starts behaving strangely for dropdown menus in Firefox settings. The menus aren't where they should be and sometimes flicker.

> (Incidentally, remember Firefox uses X11 unless you manually turn on its experimental Wayland support via MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1)

Yeah, I've exported this as a user environment variable and confirmed with xeyes that Firefox runs natively in Wayland.

> Tooltips are working in all the Wayland Qt apps that I have (marble-qt, zeal-git, musescore, telegram-desktop).

Please let me know if it works for you on Qterminal.

I'd also love to have Spectacle working on Sway. It starts natively in Wayland but fails to screenshot anything and tells me to open a bug report.

Gwenview looks broken on Sway/Wayland. The colors are all messed up.

> If you have an AUR helper, replacing {sway,wlroots,xorg-xwayland} with {sway,wlroots,xorg-xwayland}-hidpi-git is really easy and not at all slow, though at least sway and wlroots do interdepend so that if you upgrade one you should rebuild the other or things may break (happened to me a couple of months back, there was a .so version bump). I decided that I’d rather have not-quite-perfect scaling and any package management concerns, rather than having XWayland content always look terrible. And remember that’s true of any scaling factor other than one.

I'm not really using any XWayland programs at the moment except rofi so I don't think installing those packages from the AUR is worth it for me. I'd be happy to use them if they were available as official precompiled binaries.

Any ideas why these patches aren't merged to master? Some disagreements among devs?

Re: System76 Pangolin Linux-first laptop with AMD internals now in stock

#370

Post by 3np »

abledon wrote: post #18
ruined wrote: post #12

1080p screen is a no-go. come on yall, it's 2021

Isn't 1080p way better for battery life + its mostly indistinguishable in pixels? unless you are like, looking really close at the pixels? remember its 1080p inside a 15" monitor, not a 24" monitor a PC has.

On a 1080p 14” with native resolution, the ideal terminal font size for me would be about 8px. There’s a significant difference in ergonomics around that range. I have two 14” Thinkpads and my eyes feel strained a lot faster on the 1080p compared to the 1440 if I’d have the same effective font size. The result is I can fit the content I want on the 1440 but not on the 1080p without eye-strain.

There’s really no magic way to make fonts as readable with 8px as with 12px.

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