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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#401

Post by version_five »

jdwithit wrote: post #177
namdnay wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget. The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.

Exactly. I've never understood why capital or cash expense costs are valued so much differently than salary costs. I've had jobs (like any manager) where I have complete leeway on how I "spend" millions of dollars of people's time, but had to to through all kinds of approval to spend even the smallest amount of money.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#403

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

> Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year?

Not just "think" - I know for a fact.

Finance refuses to spend money if there is a "free" alternative, and Architecture rejects all software that isn't OSS licensed without a lengthy review process. It would take us at least 3 months to get approvals and POs for all the devs, if it even got approved, but more likely it would be in "batches" of licenses, further delaying roll-out. So instead the devs are beginning to install Linux VMs to run Docker from, or looking at podman.

People forget that just because there's a "rational" decision, doesn't mean people (or businesses) will choose it. Businesses are run by humans, and humans are irrational and dumb. Path of least resistance wins.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#404

Post by hda111 »

bspammer wrote: post #389
mleonhard wrote: post #381

> There's a standards conversion going on where we can trace the provenance of each and every layer of the image, we can start signing those layers, and with that metadata, we can start doing automated decisioning, automated reporting, automated visibility into what's been done to that image at each step of the lifecycle. Docker's CEO is being disingenuous. When you deploy a Docker container, you specify the image ID…

The fact that images are not content-addressed is very surprising to me. I just always assumed they were because… why wouldn’t they be? I bet a large proportion of other devs assumed the same.

Podman project recently introduced a lot of content addressing features. Some are still experimental though.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#405

Post by hda111 »

steviedotboston wrote: post #154
ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

I have to restart Docker for Mac multiple times a day. I'm surprised there hasn't been a community driven open source alternative yet

podman-remote with a Linux VM?

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#406

Post by londons_explore »

cies wrote: post #237
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been fortunate enough to work at companies where engineers were trusted to make small purchasing decisions. It works well for a while, but eventually everyone accumulates a lot of random recurring charges and the company cracks down. $21 is nothing for a one-time spend. $21 per month per employee is now $252/year per employee, but now you also need someone managing all of these licenses and accounting. Every new…

> requires some juggling of licenses with associated turn-around times This! I've always said that a bit reason for FLOSS to win over the internet server-side is because scaling fast and juggling livenses is just too hard. Especially with the prying eyes of Oracle/MSFT/etc's powerful legal teams and hidden "phone home" code. Going with a LAMP stack was just to simplest way to keep moving at speed.

What would have happened if Microsoft had put some clause in volume licenses that said "you can use a system unlicensed for up to 30 days before paying for a license".

Then engineering can spin up loads of instances to test stuff and scale fast with minimal hassle, and it'll be the purchasing team playing catchup later, no longer in the decisionmaking path.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#407

Post by ev1 »

jacurtis wrote: post #358
xenadu02 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you must exist in this kind of organization use this to your advantage. Get involved in important projects, setup purchase proposals, then make sure you add in new laptops, cables, mice, extra monitors, and whatever other accessories you need. Do you have a remote KVM attached to all 100 servers? Yes. Will finance care if you add 100 monitors, keyboards, mice, etc? Nope. Will your vendor happily add those on to th…

Yep, large companies work like congress. First you need something core to start a bill around. Let's make a law that makes it easier to buy guns. But no one is going to vote for that, so let's give it a name you CAN'T say no to. It will henceforth be known as "The Child and Family Home Protection Act". Great we have a cool name and we have a law significant enough to send to the floor of congress. Now let's get enoug…

You forgot a critical part of bill names - there has to be a terribly forced backronym made out of it.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#408

Post by hda111 »

eric__cartman wrote: post #168
trey-jones wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I hadn't heard of podman until now, and I imagine I'm not the only one. Does it consistently have functional parity with docker?

I use it on my Fedora dev machine and it's pretty good. Still wouldn't replace a mission critical machine with it, as it isn't the primary target for docker containers to run on and it can break more easily.

It will break from time to time. But so does Docker Desktop. Neither Docker nor Podman are suitable for mission critical stuff. Their market is entirely dev machines and devs can fix in on their own.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#410

Post by stavros »

pimterry wrote: post #393
benbristow wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with Telerik Fiddler recently. Good piece of software for debugging network requests on Windows. Was free for as long as I've known it existed. Telerik recently bought by 'Progress' (ironic), software re-written in Electron and now charges a subscription to use it. Glad HTTP Toolkit is now available free for 'hobbyist' tasks - https://httptoolkit.tech/

I'm the author of HTTP Toolkit! Just ran into this by chance, glad you like it :-D I should mention here: not only is the core product all free, it's also completely open source, even including the paid bits ( https://github.com/httptoolkit ). And those Pro features are completely free for all contributors to the project. I've tried to set it up so I couldn't run off with it and force everybody to start paying even i…

I love you.
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