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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#321

Post by rchaud »

Johnny555 wrote: post #296
jdwithit wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget. The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.

A big advantage of using free open source software is that the licensing prices will never increase because the company needs a new revenue stream to support its business model. Docker Desktop was free, now it's $21/month, what will it cost next year when Docker needs more money?

Licensing prices might not increase, but paid technical support costs could theoretically be unlimited. Especially if you're at the mercy of an open-source software that isn't well-maintained.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#322

Post by mfer »

mikl wrote: post #311
emptysongglass wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys (by you guys I mean you and Docker, Inc) would do yourselves a huge favor not spiting the Linux devs who invented the technologies you build your tools on. Where's the Linux version? Give it to me in Snap, AppImage, Flatpak, deb, or rpm, whatever you want. Just offer something. We'll take care of the rest.

The whole reason this (and Docker Desktop) are used is that Docker and K8s does not run natively on macOS and Windows. If you’re using Linux already, most of this stuff is as useful as nipples on a breastplate. You could theoretically run an emptied out husk of the app on Linux, but there are much better tools for working with the tools directly. So I’d be greatly surprised if any Linux kernel hackers are miffed abou…

I'm not sure the whole reason for Docker Desktop is that Docker and K8s don't run natively. I mean, someone could create a Linux VM and get them running right through there. The tools exist to do this.

There are even programs like minikube that can get you Kubernetes in a VM on Mac.

There is something else to it that people want and that translates to Linux, I've learned. They want an easy button with an easy UX. There are a lot of people who are like that.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#323

Post by naikrovek »

matsemann wrote: post #266
dijit wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not an issue though. That’s just how virtual machines work. You’re carving out a chunk of your system for the docker Linux VM that runs your containers. You can open up the docker app and configure a smaller amount of ram if it impacts your host OS

No, that's not how it works with WSL2 as the backend. You then cannot configure a smaller amount of RAM in the docker app, it's greyed out. One can limit the RAM that WSL has, but that's not really helpful when docker steals all of it. (And WSL2 supports dynamic allocation of memory anyways, so it's supposed to return unused memory to the host) So you are wrong. For those of us affected by the bug, it's a big issue.

Linux considers unused RAM to be wasted RAM. WSL 2 addresses this with a Linux kernel change that right now is insiders only. I expect it to land with Windows 11.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#324

Post by aenis »

noir_lord wrote: post #223
WhatsName wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you aren't aware, it's easy to explain by that fact that most finance departments are afraid to question your spendings on grounds of looking incompetent. So it's less about 10$ and more about: "I understand what a wireless mouse is and it doesn't look mission critical to me." "No idea what those items on that AWS bill mean, but I'll probably be better off not asking"

“2.4Ghz Laser Based Human Interface Device, $10” seems cheap approved.

Too cheap. Been in a few places where getting 700k for something with a boring but plausible name was a no questions asked thing, but trying to get a $15 miro board license was literally impissible. I paid for a lot of tools out of my own pocket to avoid the hassle. I bet I am not alone with this approach.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#325

Post by captainmuon »

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

I guess it depends on the enterprise. I can imagine the thoughts of certain managers: Recurring costs? Something that used to be free and now they want money? Pricing per user? More expensive than Office 365?

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#326

Post by naikrovek »

emptysongglass wrote: post #197
mfer wrote: post #61

Rancher Desktop is an open source container management and Kubernetes desktop app. https://rancherdesktop.io/ Disclosure: I work on Rancher Desktop. Feedback welcome.

You guys (by you guys I mean you and Docker, Inc) would do yourselves a huge favor not spiting the Linux devs who invented the technologies you build your tools on. Where's the Linux version? Give it to me in Snap, AppImage, Flatpak, deb, or rpm, whatever you want. Just offer something. We'll take care of the rest.

I installed this and could not get networking going again in WSL 2 until I uninstalled it. I was sad.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#327

Post by kcb »

nickjj wrote: post #283

For everyone who is against this change, can you please write up why? For a ton of small companies (anyone making $10 million or less per year) nothing is going to change and DD is still free to use. If you're at a big organization with let's say 200 developers chances are your company makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Even Docker's most expensive business plan would cost you 200 * $21 = $4,200 month. Pay…

Because procurement processes suck and developers don't want to deal with them. When it's something from Microsoft, Google, Amazon, it's not a problem because those deals are handled at a level that developers don't interact much with and are ingrained as business critical. There's no way we're going to have a contract with Docker by January so I fully expect a "Please uninstall Docker Desktop" email long before that.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#328

Post by alkonaut »

10000truths wrote: post #282
Closi wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free tools have a predictable and stable cost. Unless they suddenly turn from free into a $21/month per person fee.

I think he means free as in open source, rather than free as in freeware. In which the worst case scenario is that you are stuck with the last open-source version, but at least you retain full control over your fork of the code and can add features and bug fixes as you see fit.

Indeed. Proprietary/Closed-source but costing $0 is the worst of both worlds.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#329

Post by VenTatsu »

Ansil849 wrote: post #194
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that.

> I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that. The fact that they don't care, and yet you (or if not you, others) still use it, succinctly explains why they do not care. If they have a shitty, buggy client for Mac/Windows, and people complain about it but still use it, then they have no incentive to care.

It's hard to complain to much about a free product that is a side line to the companies main business... Oh wait, we just lost the free version and it's now the companies main monetization scheme? Well now I care a lot about the little annoying bugs I've been dealing with for the last 3 years.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#330

Post by onlywicked »

matsemann wrote: post #266
dijit wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not an issue though. That’s just how virtual machines work. You’re carving out a chunk of your system for the docker Linux VM that runs your containers. You can open up the docker app and configure a smaller amount of ram if it impacts your host OS

No, that's not how it works with WSL2 as the backend. You then cannot configure a smaller amount of RAM in the docker app, it's greyed out. One can limit the RAM that WSL has, but that's not really helpful when docker steals all of it. (And WSL2 supports dynamic allocation of memory anyways, so it's supposed to return unused memory to the host) So you are wrong. For those of us affected by the bug, it's a big issue.

You can configure the max memory in wsl 2 with .wslconfig file.
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