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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#271

Post by gfiorav »

eptcyka wrote: post #151
gfiorav wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This makes sense. USD 21 per user/month + bulk discount is nothing. If companies want to roll their own they can, but most won't. Docker Desktop adds a lot of value if only by removing the hassle for quick os-agnostic development.

What is the value add for Docker Desktop? In a world where podman exists, what's the point of docker on dev machines anyway?

The fact that you could do something alternative doesn’t mean it’s easy, supported, or streamlined for developers or company tech ops.

I don’t think that thinking like an engineer will help you understand the value add here.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#272

Post by kristjansson »

OldTimeCoffee wrote: post #110
kristjansson wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker Engine only runs on Linux. Docker for Mac/Windows sets up a Linux VM using macOS/Windows native virtualization via the open-source HyperKit/VPNKit abstractions maintained by Docker-the-Company and the community. That VM runs Docker Enginer (dockerd) and all interaction (docker CLI commands, shared volumes, networking, etc.) are proxied into that VM.

So unless I'm missing something important, why not just use docker engine directly on a wsl2 instance?

I’m not a Windows user but AIUI just running dockerd in WSL2 misses some of the volume sharing and networking niceties. Nothing that couldn’t be replicated though

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#273

Post by vesinisa »

TheDong wrote: post #258
vesinisa wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so you're running your app on virtualized Linux inside Docker inside Linux inside Virtualbox inside native MacOS?

That's a reductive way to phrase it, but more or less yes. It's arguable if the container is "virtualized linux" as they all share a single linux kernel. In reality there's one virtual machine, one linux kernel, and many linux userspaces (one per container), which is kinda the whole point of containers. Over docker+linux, the virtual machine is the only additional layer. fwiw, I personally don't use macOS, so I've on…

> Are you trying to make a point or something here?

Nah, just curious/intrigued by how these stack.

OS-level virtualization is very much a thing. I'd be interesting to compare this to the approach taken by Docker Dekstop for Mac. I bet they do something quite similar (hypervisor-based virtualization like Virtualbox) - nothing fancy like WSL1 that I believe runs a sort of "tortured" Linux kernel inside the NT kernel.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#274

Post by ithkuil »

namdnay wrote: post #158
qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

You can drill through layers of that crap if you can sell something through aws marketplace or equivalent thing that your company is already set up to spend millions a month.

Not sure how would that work for a desktop tool. It's in them to figure that out though

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#276

Post by kristjansson »

acdha wrote: post #242
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been fortunate enough to work at companies where engineers were trusted to make small purchasing decisions. It works well for a while, but eventually everyone accumulates a lot of random recurring charges and the company cracks down. $21 is nothing for a one-time spend. $21 per month per employee is now $252/year per employee, but now you also need someone managing all of these licenses and accounting. Every new…

One other big factor: certain other vendors have very aggressive sales tactics which essentially boil down to “buy a bunch of stuff you don’t need or we’ll audit every computer in your company and charge a penalty for anything we can find to quibble with”. Docker doesn’t need to actually do that to run afoul of policies based on the scar tissue from those other vendors. Simply going from “you can use it without being…

Yup, this is the concern. Having been kindly asked by Oracle to remove virtualbox extensions, this sort of gotcha/conditional pricing feels dangerous

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#277

Post by xtracto »

ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

I got bitten by a Mac bug a couple of months ago: The latest version of Docker desktop didn't work for something (don't remember anymore) so I had to revert to a previous version and work in that for several months now.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#278

Post by chrisseaton »

eikenberry wrote: post #253
chrisseaton wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was free of charge.

Which is why being free of charge isn't really the point of free software.

But not everyone cares about 'libre' software, or thinks the simple descriptive term 'free' should be co-opted in discussions like you are.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#279

Post by hughrr »

truffdog wrote: post #243
regularfry wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't think I could get Docker Desktop through our procurement process before the end of the grace period. It's not a matter of "this is peanuts" as much as "we're guaranteed to breach the license terms if we keep using this thing, so everyone has to get off it now ." And then once it's gone, we'll limp along with whatever plugs the gap until something else emerges a as a winner, which probably won't be Do…

This reminds me of the genius of AWS. The engineering team can just buy whatever they want, no questions asked.

Hey we get asked plenty of questions when the bill comes in :)

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#280

Post by treesknees »

moogly wrote: post #275

How do you even install Docker Engine on Windows without WSL2? Same goes for macOS.

If you're referring to Docker Desktop on Windows, you can use the Hyper-V backend instead of WSL2. MacOS uses HyperKit API to spin up a Linux VM to run it. There is no native engine for Windows or MacOS.

https://docs.docker.com/desktop/windows/install/

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