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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#261

Post by tensor »

TheDong wrote: post #206
deusex_ wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what minikube backend are you using for this? The preferred one is Docker and all the others are also paid on Mac.

> all the others are also paid on Mac Hyperkit is open source software that works on macOS. https://minikube.sigs.k8s.io/docs/drivers/hyperkit/ Virtualbox is also a free (as in beer, and mostly libre) driver that works on all of windows/linux/macOS

Beware of VirtualBox. While part of it is free, it's not very useful without the extension package. This package is easy to download on the same website as VirtualBox, but... it's not free.

Even better Oracle tracks the ips that download this extension and after a suitable amount of time they will come knocking on your company's door asking for an insulting amount of money (e.g. more expensive than VMware) or get sued. You need to read the fine print of the additional Eula printed in really small letters on the VirtualBox website to figure out the extension isn't free. It's almost a honeypot tactic. Scummy.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#262

Post by jandrese »

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

It's not the amount of money that is the issue, the issue is that it this wasn't budgeted into the project when it was proposed 2 years ago. It is software that falls under category S which means you can't use overhead funds it has to be a category S purchase, but you have no category S funds budgeted to the project because you were using free software.

Being so cheap actually complicates the matters even more, since the finance people don't really want to mess with purchases less than $5,000, even though it is their own rule that requires all software to go through them regardless of cost. It just means they won't be willing to help very much.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#263

Post by Closi »

alkonaut wrote: post #227
jdwithit wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget. The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.

If someone suggests a tool that costs $1k/yr over a free tool that costs $5k/year in extra work, I’m going to die on the free tool hill. Because the $1k/yr tool will disappear when the company goes defunct, or it won’t interoperate with something else and there is no way of fixing it. Or it can’t migrate to the next tool. Or we need to upgrade to an enterprise license because we become 21 developers instead of 20. Or…

> Free tools have a predictable and stable cost.

Unless they suddenly turn from free into a $21/month per person fee.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#264

Post by OJFord »

namdnay wrote: post #158
qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

It's very impactful though, it'll probably be people seeing it as highly visible and career-advancing who manage to muster the 'patience and leverage'.

If the org's been thoughtful to in advance, it's at the level of being almost an operational risk - all of engineering uses this tool, tool's licence or pricing might change, retooling has an associated cost and down-time.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#265

Post by vesinisa »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #172
yurishimo wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's probably not gonna happen. At the scale Docker is operating at now, the reason the Mac app sucks, is because it's really hard. They already have the resources to throw at this problem now and this is the product we have. This is purely a $$$ move (which is fine) but we shouldn't expect an order of magnitude more work going into the product as a result of this move, imo.

If you expect me to pay for it, it better work well enough to not be a blocker to my critical job path workflow.

But you're not actually paying for it. Your employer is.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#266

Post by matsemann »

dijit wrote: post #250
matsemann wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish they fixed the issue where it uses all available RAM even when running no containers yet.

That’s not an issue though. That’s just how virtual machines work. You’re carving out a chunk of your system for the docker Linux VM that runs your containers. You can open up the docker app and configure a smaller amount of ram if it impacts your host OS

No, that's not how it works with WSL2 as the backend. You then cannot configure a smaller amount of RAM in the docker app, it's greyed out. One can limit the RAM that WSL has, but that's not really helpful when docker steals all of it. (And WSL2 supports dynamic allocation of memory anyways, so it's supposed to return unused memory to the host)

So you are wrong. For those of us affected by the bug, it's a big issue.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#267

Post by mfer »

emptysongglass wrote: post #197
mfer wrote: post #61

Rancher Desktop is an open source container management and Kubernetes desktop app. https://rancherdesktop.io/ Disclosure: I work on Rancher Desktop. Feedback welcome.

You guys (by you guys I mean you and Docker, Inc) would do yourselves a huge favor not spiting the Linux devs who invented the technologies you build your tools on. Where's the Linux version? Give it to me in Snap, AppImage, Flatpak, deb, or rpm, whatever you want. Just offer something. We'll take care of the rest.

Thanks for the feedback. A Linux version is in the roadmap for this fall. I've had several discussions on it in the past week.

Part of this was due to priorities and part of it was technicalities. For example, do we put it in a VM so that way someone can easily blow things away and we don't touch the base system? We had to come to some direction on what we wanted to do there. Now that we have that idea we need to finish up one thing on Mac that will translate over to Linux.

The Linux side will be based on Lima[1] just as the Mac side is.

Earlier today I had a discussion on the packaging format.

[1] https://github.com/lima-vm/lima

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#269

Post by jandrese »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #176
ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that.

We de-dockerized our Windows deployments because it was causing no end of headaches for the end users.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#270

Post by watermelon0 »

ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

In my experience, minikube (hyperkit) performs better than DockerForMac Kubernetes, if we ignore mounting of macOS folders to the VM.
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