Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#171

Post by remram » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

cybrexalpha wrote: post #85

This seems like a bit of a footgun from Docker Inc. Those on Linux will just run Docker Engine (the open source part) directly, or move to alternatives like Podman. Docker Desktop only really has value on macOS and Windows, and there it's only because nobody wants to manage the glue to setup a Linux VM. Given the cost, I suspect many will chose to do that glue work themselves and I wouldn't be surprised to see an ope…

There is a Docker Desktop for Linux? What does it do?

Why would I go out of my way to set up Docker differently on my dev machine compared to my servers? That seems like a recipe for failure.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#172

Post by devoutsalsa » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

yurishimo wrote: post #155

ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

Yeah, that's probably not gonna happen. At the scale Docker is operating at now, the reason the Mac app sucks, is because it's really hard. They already have the resources to throw at this problem now and this is the product we have. This is purely a $$$ move (which is fine) but we shouldn't expect an order of magnitude more work going into the product as a result of this move, imo.

If you expect me to pay for it, it better work well enough to not be a blocker to my critical job path workflow.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#173

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

eptcyka wrote: post #151

gfiorav wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This makes sense. USD 21 per user/month + bulk discount is nothing. If companies want to roll their own they can, but most won't. Docker Desktop adds a lot of value if only by removing the hassle for quick os-agnostic development.

What is the value add for Docker Desktop? In a world where podman exists, what's the point of docker on dev machines anyway?

[deleted]

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#174

Post by smoldesu » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

The Docker experience is (and has been) subopar on MacOS. With the way Apple Silicon is headed, I don't really have much faith that the situation is going to get better, and I really wonder if the Mac client is even a priority for them at this point.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#175

Post by eptcyka » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

trey-jones wrote: post #161

eptcyka wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the value add for Docker Desktop? In a world where podman exists, what's the point of docker on dev machines anyway?

Well, I hadn't heard of podman until now, and I imagine I'm not the only one. Does it consistently have functional parity with docker?

trey-jones, I apologize, but I cannot reply to you directly.

The biggest showstopper for podman is that it runs entirely in userspace on Linux. Having said that, I use it as a drop-in replacement for Docker and it's only become better in the past year. This is somewhat irrelevant to the Docker Desktop product, as podman doesn't provide a nice packaged up solution, but you can use podman on Windows and Mac as long as you have a Linux host available, either as a guest VM or as a machine _elsewhere_ on the network, see [1]. I only use Linux if I can, and the ability to run images without having to run a daemon with root privileges is a very big bonus for me, but it might not be for you. Now I do wonder, how hard would it be to declare a minimal nixOS VM for running as one's podman host :)

[1]: https://podman.io/getting-started/installation.html

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#176

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#177

Post by jdwithit » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #158

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget.

The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#178

Post by indemnity » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

mongol wrote: post #131

justincormack wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey sorry about that, can you send me the ticket details justin @ docker.com and I can look into it.

It should not have to work like this.

Agree 100%. I don’t want to have to resort to Twitter or HN to get a ticket worked. Fuck that, hire some staff, work on your enterprise support.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#179

Post by nonameiguess » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

stuff4ben wrote: post #35

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're doing $10M in ARR, how much engineering time are you going to spend to switch compared to paying Docker a few thousand dollars a month? Your spend on cloud and Slack (or other comms) is likely far higher. You're probably spending more on mobile/cell business service. "Docker attempting to monetize users of its product who can easily afford the cost." I mean, the terms seems reasonable, and wouldn't you rath…

I'll preface this by saying I'm an IBM employee. That being said your comment rubbed me the wrong way... > wouldn't you rather support Docker vs IBM (Redhat->Podman)? Podman is an open source product and Docker is not. I'd much rather support an open source project. And what's wrong with "supporting" IBM anyways? Did they hurt you in some way???

Docker Desktop is not open source, but the Docker container engine is. Also, runc, which is the actual container runtime, is not only open source, but was created by docker but is also what gets used by podman. podman is very nearly just a fork with the daemon and socket removed, which would not have been possible if docker hadn't been open source.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#180

Post by mikestew » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #54

glutamate wrote: post #48

If Docker wants to grow up, maybe they could start with replying to support tickets from paying customers. I have a 10 day old open ticket with no reply.

Hey sorry about that, can you send me the ticket details justin @ docker.com and I can look into it.

So, like many companies, successful support consists of yelping at the appropriate public forum, be it Twitter or in this case, HN. Anything the public doesn't see: "due to unexpected call volume, you'll wait at least ten days before hearing from anyone". All the while the company forgets that the complaining customer isn't the only one reading. The rest of us are reading a live account of what company's customer support looks like.