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Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

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Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#51
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(Will evolution select against women getting higher education like Masters or PhD? Because that is one of the biggest predictors of reduced fertility.) Generally speaking evolution does not work on these time scales. Importantly, there is nothing that would make someone "genetically liberal" or "genetically conservative." You might be able to point to higher order traits which may indicate someone being conservative…

>The point is that political movements have short life spans. Perhaps in the tens or hundreds of years, which is not nearly enough for evolution to make any meaningful impact. Evolution can work on any time scale, including instantly. Look no further than a large asteroid turning into a meteorite, it is evolution done in hours, where everything larger than a cat dies. For politics: the Nazi party for example had a de…

>Evolution can work on any time scale, including instantly. Look no further than a large asteroid turning into a meteorite, it is evolution done in hours, where everything larger than a cat dies.

A large asteroid will not make me grow a new sensory organ, it will simply kill me. Not all genetic changes take an equivalent amount of time, or are equally feasible.

- Growing taller or shorter can happen rapidly because genes for these traits already exist and must simply be selected from the environment.

- Moving away from a bifurcated body plan is probably impossible, as it is too fundamental to many other systems in the body.

Obviously there's a wide area in between those two examples, but we're discussing whether or not certain traits that people have are 1) genetic in origin, and 2) liable to drift much over time.

Given that religion has been a constant for all known human history (and pre-history, depending on how you interpret artifacts) I would suggest that it's likely to be strongly wrapped up in the same things which build human psychology and human social structure. I want to admit here this is just my view on the topic, and I'm not suggesting that this established scientific fact. In any case, I'm a firm believer in the argument that many who identify as "liberal" and definitely-not-Christian nonetheless have many beliefs which could otherwise be categorized as religious. I want to make it clear I'm not attacking or praising these beliefs, but simply suggesting that parts of the mind which lead people toward religion are a bit more fundamental to humanity, and are not something such as hair color which can be easily or capriciously changed.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…

"Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC..." Where are these opportunities? Do people actually think they can get rich and then achieve it in any meaningful numbers?

>Where are these opportunities

If the stats on where most immigrants from foreign countries wind up residing are any indication, not in coastal California or NYC.

The people who move to SV or NYC to get rich on tech or finance are generally Americans born to parents who are college educated or credentialed professionals, and you can see this in the demographics of the companies where these people are working and getting rich.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#53

My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.

Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…

Economic mobility is highest in the Mountain West region, not coastal California or NYC.

https://www.businessinsider.com/income-inequality-upward-mob...

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#54
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative parents don't necessarily produce conservative children.

But papers do indicate that there is a genetic component to political ideology: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4038932/pdf/nih... Your argument is akin to a global warming denier saying that yeah, but some days are still cold. Yes, there will always be variation.

That's not really analogous. I'm just pointing out that there is an underlying assumption in your argument that may or may not be true.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#55
Counter-intuitively, my parents have stayed happily married for a very long time and my dad is significantly more conservative than my mom (although my mom has become more "conservative" in the current decade in reaction to how extreme rhetoric on the left has become in the US). I am about to propose to my long-time partner who is significantly more to the left than I am (we are both to the left, I'm barely left of center, my partner is barely to the right of the the edge of the chart).

There used to be the phrase "opposites attract". I think there are value systems which underlie politics that need to match up, but those value systems don't necessarily translate into the exact same political beliefs. In fact, in the US historically, men tended to be more conservative and women more progressive, and I don't see that really changing in the current times. Most of my male friends are more conservative than their partners, even as most of us are left of center. This is true, anecdotally, among the people I know across educational attainment and income.

On the flip side, when I was still dating, I always brought up politics and religion on the first date because it helped me filter people out. I didn't filter people out because we disagreed politically, but because of /how/ we disagreed (or rather how /they/ disagreed) politically. It was surprising the number of people who were exceedingly disagreeable about politics, completely unable to have a polite conversation on the topic, where any hint of dissent from their view was met with vehemence, even in person in a face-to-face conversation. My experience up to that point was this was how things worked online, but you could have a conversation with someone very different from you over a beer and it'd be alright face-to-face. Dating changed my outlook on this.

I think this was a good filter, because while politics was the topic of discussion, the filter had nothing to do with beliefs and everything to do with agreeableness, reasonableness, and behavior. In effect, it became a very good way to filter out assholes, of which there are many, unfortunately the majority of eligible persons in my dating pool. But, no regrets on this filter, because my current partner is wonderful and was found after many years of searching using this filter.

My parents relationship, the relationships of my friends (most of whom are married), and my own relationship are all anecdotal, but strong evidence that supports you don't need to politically agree to date successfully and have a long-term relationship or marriage. But it does require the two people involved to not be vehement zealots who dehumanize anyone that disagrees with them, which unfortunately is becoming a rarer situation thanks to the extremist echo chambers we've created online.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…

Economic mobility is highest in the Mountain West region, not coastal California or NYC. https://www.businessinsider.com/income-inequality-upward-mob...

That has nothing to do with the policies of the region, and everything to do with the volume of taxing oil operations work that requires limited/no education and can pay 6 figures.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#57

My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.

Without taking on the challenge of falsifying your claim (I think it’d be pretty hard), I see things a little differently. A key moment in the development of the current conservative mindset was Goldwater’s 1964 campaign, nearly 60 years ago by now. Goldwater (and every Republican who succeeded him) has used the same rhetorical lynchpins: the media cannot be trusted, it’s the coastal elites against the heartland, &c.…

I can see no reason aside from lazy malevolence to downvote your comment woodruffw.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…

We work side by side in downtown SF too. OK, in side by side video windows for now...

"For now"? Judging by the average comment on this message board one gets the impression that working downtown at a software job is a thing of the past.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#59
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC..." Where are these opportunities? Do people actually think they can get rich and then achieve it in any meaningful numbers?

>Where are these opportunities If the stats on where most immigrants from foreign countries wind up residing are any indication, not in coastal California or NYC. The people who move to SV or NYC to get rich on tech or finance are generally Americans born to parents who are college educated or credentialed professionals, and you can see this in the demographics of the companies where these people are working and gett…

Silicon Valley tech companies as a whole are 71% foreign-born [1]. Cupertino itself is 57.4% foreign-born [2]. I've been on teams at Google where I was the only U.S. citizen, out of 10 (the others were from Iceland, the UK, Vietnam, Taiwan, 2 India, and 3 China). Canada is another big contributor as well - out of my immediate neighborhood of ~60 coworkers, 5 were Canadian.

The largest groups within SV tech are actually green-card holders or naturalized citizens. H-1Bs are only about 8%, U.S. citizens about 20-50% depending on company.

[1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/17/h-1b-foreign-citizens...

[2] https://datausa.io/profile/geo/cupertino-ca/

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#60
post #35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is the narrative of the religious but most don't go to learn about what they are doing wrong. They go to find out what other people are doing wrong so they can feel superior and rail against the sin of others. And this is the narrative of the Extremely Online Atheist. Of the hundreds of religious people I know (though I'm not myself), maybe two fit that description. You are noticing outliers and assuming they…

No, I grew up going to church three times a week. I believe in God but not religion for the reasons mentioned. All my family is religious. They post the most hateful judgmental things on FB. My one cousin is gay and her direct family won't talk to her because she is a "sinner". I don't see the so called Christians acting like Christ and when they do it is mostly on spreading the word. Even the churches and mission th…

I think it depends on which Church, which cultural groups, what generation etc. I know the "judgemental Christian" cliché, but I also know it to be very much an American WASP (specifically Evangelical, I think?) stereotype.
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