At this point in my life I definitely wouldn't try to date a conservative. The cultural gaps between cosmopolitanism and (everything else) have become increasingly large, especially for a person of color like myself. With that said, nobody's really knocking down my door to go out with me either, so I'm mostly just a choosing beggar.
Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
31–40 of 133 posts
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
'Liberal' and 'conservative' are just labels that no longer describe the same ideologies as in the past. 19th C liberals were sort of like modern day libertarians, but in the context of the European monarchies at the time which were explicitly oppressive. 20th century progressives with their universal social programs were social democrats. Modern day liberals are split between 'centrist' neo-liberals and more hardcor…
It's curious that you see a spectrum in the left, but not in the right. That might suggest bias, but I'd like to give you the benefit of doubt. There is no universal conservative position, nor are all conservatives reactionary. Just as those far to the left have strayed from classical liberalism, those far to the right have strayed from classical conservatism. With the rampant labeling and tribalism so popular these…
> That might suggest bias, but I'd like to give you the benefit of doubt.
No need to doubt: I have a more nuanced view of left politics because I'm left biased and spend more time consuming left content and commentary. This is a politics post. Everyone is biased. Politics is the mind killer and all that. This includes self-described apolitical, can't we all just get along CNN types; they're probably status quo biased and 'biased' against the active reactionary/revolutionary branches of the parties.
> stray from classical
This is really complicated. They now have different policy objectives, but perhaps the same sentiments? I doubt I have it clear enough in my head to explain my view on this, sadly... OK.
The leftist ideals have tended to be to maximize negative and (once you add in socialist views) maximize positive liberty for as many people as possible. Don't restrict people from doing what they want and make sure as many people have the means to do what they want as possible. Libertarianism on social issues and at least redistributive social democracy on economic issues.
The right wing ideal, in my understanding, is that people often times want stupid shit and we shouldn't let them do it. Also evening out social outcomes is a bad idea since it reduces the incentive to work hard in everyone and impoverishes us all as a result. Also why shouldn't the best players of the social game have more power than the worst? So a mix of Burkean cautious respect for tradition and 'competition breeds excellence'.
I don't think the factions have 'strayed' from these ideals that much, but the translation of those ideals into policy positions has changed massively over time.
Anyway, the right-wing camps, in my outsider view.
Corporatist centrists: similar to the democratic centrists but with reversed culture wars allegiance and more tax-cutty.
Religious conservatives: culture war reactionaries, obviously. And I don't think just because they're losing ground in recent times. I'm sure there was opposition to liberal divorce laws and whatnot back in the whenever too.
Neo-cons: Republican trotskyists(lol https://old.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/32f1df/is_th...). There are horrible regimes in the world, and America should replace them with more America. Unrelated, they invest their life savings into military contractor and adjacent corporations. See also responsibility to protect, Rwanda etc. It honestly sounds like such a good idea in theory("Check this out: we go to Afghanistan, we give them freedom and in 20 years time bam it's Minnesota in Central Asia!"), but it always goes so horribly bad in practice.
Libertarians: way more politicians claim to be that than actually live it tho, much more focused on economic aspect than social aspect. Some cynical corporatists hide under this label. I think casual libertarianish attitude describes a ton of the voters: don't increase my taxes, don't make me do anything I'm not already doing, don't make me think about the government just do your job behind the scenes.
Alt-right: culture war reactionaries? Straight up monarchist reactionary trolls? This is one of those labels that just gets painted pretty liberally, so I'm really not sure what a quick summary of it is. Trumpists?
Populist types: supposedly meh on the culture war and economically left-wing, sort of inspired by European Christian Democrat type parties. Hard to really say how much they disdain the culture war since american media is very culture war biased. Which is understandable since clearly everyone would find economic policy conversations boring(wink wink nudge nudge keep arguing amongst yourselves about pronouns and taboo words, dear proles!).
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#33My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.
Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…
We work side by side in downtown SF too.
OK, in side by side video windows for now...
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#34Conservatives currently out reproduce liberals for whatever reason, for example: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advant... I wonder if it is purely cultural or is there a genetic component? If there is low fertility because of a genetic component, that is likely going to targeted hard by evolution now. (Will evolution select against women getting higher education like Masters or PhD? Because tha…
>(Will evolution select against women getting higher education like Masters or PhD? Because that is one of the biggest predictors of reduced fertility.) Generally speaking evolution does not work on these time scales. Importantly, there is nothing that would make someone "genetically liberal" or "genetically conservative." You might be able to point to higher order traits which may indicate someone being conservative…
Actually there do appear to be some genes that tend to make people liberal or conservative. (Obviously genes aren't the only factor.)
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-genes-of-left...
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is the narrative of the religious but most don't go to learn about what they are doing wrong. They go to find out what other people are doing wrong so they can feel superior and rail against the sin of others. Religion has always been a weapon, it is just easier to wield now.
> That is the narrative of the religious but most don't go to learn about what they are doing wrong. They go to find out what other people are doing wrong so they can feel superior and rail against the sin of others. And this is the narrative of the Extremely Online Atheist. Of the hundreds of religious people I know (though I'm not myself), maybe two fit that description. You are noticing outliers and assuming they…
No, I grew up going to church three times a week. I believe in God but not religion for the reasons mentioned. All my family is religious. They post the most hateful judgmental things on FB. My one cousin is gay and her direct family won't talk to her because she is a "sinner". I don't see the so called Christians acting like Christ and when they do it is mostly on spreading the word. Even the churches and mission that offer free food around here do so only with prayers and sermons as part of the experience.
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Religions have a longer time span and correlate with conservatives. Many religions actually shed their members who have liberal views. Thus religions tend to conserve conservatives leaning individuals. So if religion was not part of the conservative-liberal divide I would buy your argument but it is part of it and it is long running.
200 years ago nearly the entire country was Christian, but the entire country did not hold the same political beliefs. Protestant vs. Catholic may have been a more pressing divide back then. And how would your argument fare in say ... 2,000-4,000 BC middle east? Each city has its own deity, perhaps part of a pantheon, perhaps not? Are the followers of Chemosh more or less conservative than the followers of Anat? Who…
I'm pretty sure the followers of Ninkasi (Sumerian goddess of beer) knew how to have a good time.
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#37The American Enterprise Institute? That's the pro-corporate think tank which, among other highlights, has been involved in trying to deny climate change, including by paying scientists travel stipends to attend anti-IPCC events.
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Religions have a longer time span and correlate with conservatives. Many religions actually shed their members who have liberal views. Thus religions tend to conserve conservatives leaning individuals. So if religion was not part of the conservative-liberal divide I would buy your argument but it is part of it and it is long running.
200 years ago nearly the entire country was Christian, but the entire country did not hold the same political beliefs. Protestant vs. Catholic may have been a more pressing divide back then. And how would your argument fare in say ... 2,000-4,000 BC middle east? Each city has its own deity, perhaps part of a pantheon, perhaps not? Are the followers of Chemosh more or less conservative than the followers of Anat? Who…
I would argue that time and again liberals have not reproduced at the level of conservatives/religious. This is why we still have the conservative/religious as the backbone of society.
This is why there is probably some genetics underlying religious belief: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147-genes-contribute...
It may also explain why so many people are illogical about things like Covid in religious/conservative circles. They have genetics that incline them towards illogical religious beliefs in part because it allows them to ensure they reproduce the next generation, and some of the downsides of this illogical religious inclination is that they believe crap about things and are impervious to evidence to the contrary -- e.g. faith.
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#39My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.
Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…
"Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC..."
Where are these opportunities? Do people actually think they can get rich and then achieve it in any meaningful numbers?
Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's curious that you see a spectrum in the left, but not in the right. That might suggest bias, but I'd like to give you the benefit of doubt. There is no universal conservative position, nor are all conservatives reactionary. Just as those far to the left have strayed from classical liberalism, those far to the right have strayed from classical conservatism. With the rampant labeling and tribalism so popular these…
> That might suggest bias, but I'd like to give you the benefit of doubt. No need to doubt: I have a more nuanced view of left politics because I'm left biased and spend more time consuming left content and commentary. This is a politics post. Everyone is biased. Politics is the mind killer and all that. This includes self-described apolitical, can't we all just get along CNN types; they're probably status quo biased…
Thanks for elaborating, really enjoyed that read. The Libertarian and Populist takes are particularly interesting.