Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#41

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

rejectedandsad wrote: post #30

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make much sense. Especially since 50 years ago, your race mattered infinitely more than whatever religion or denomination you belonged to.

I think I recall your name from Reddit. But while race definitely mattered (and more), religion mattered in-race as well. Same thing for casteism in India. Religion matters, but so does caste even within Hinduism.

In the white community, I think race matters more Protestant vs. Catholic, especially during the 1920s-1950s (When Kennedy was elected, folks would say "Put your hope in the Pope" because he was Catholic). While in the black community, we simply don't have that much of a Catholic or Muslim population for such in-group conflicts.

Yes, I'm the same low-agreeableness person from Reddit.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#42

Post by neverywhere » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #20

neverywhere wrote: post #7

Conservatives currently out reproduce liberals for whatever reason, for example: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advant... I wonder if it is purely cultural or is there a genetic component? If there is low fertility because of a genetic component, that is likely going to targeted hard by evolution now. (Will evolution select against women getting higher education like Masters or PhD? Because tha…

We cannot afford a mine shaft gap! But more seriously: the furthest left people I know are the ones who grew up around conservatives, particularly in privation (usually one of the strongest signals for high birth rates). These things have a tendency to balance each other by nurture; assuming that people are genetically predestined to be conservative (or liberal) is both silly and incompatible with our observed histor…

> assuming that people are genetically predestined to be conservative (or liberal) is both silly and incompatible

But there is evidence of that. I linked to some of these papers in my previous comments.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#43

Post by giantg2 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

This isn't surprising. People want to build a life with someone who shares their values.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#44

Post by larksimian » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

AmericanChopper wrote: post #18

andrew_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious that you see a spectrum in the left, but not in the right. That might suggest bias, but I'd like to give you the benefit of doubt. There is no universal conservative position, nor are all conservatives reactionary. Just as those far to the left have strayed from classical liberalism, those far to the right have strayed from classical conservatism. With the rampant labeling and tribalism so popular these…

I’m always a bit entertained by people who claim they want to express a non-biased view of partisan dynamics, and then proceed to express something that is a perfect representation of the fundamental attribution error. Personally I think the primary contention that exists between the dogma of the left and the right is just the contention between collectivism and individualism. But outliers aside, I don’t think you en…

I guess you got downvoted for both-sidesing it(Upvoted, btw :D)? I mean both parties do quite suck, even though I still think the GOP is actively harmful, while the Democratic party has good ideas that it fails to build on.

The actual party policies only really diverge on social issues. Economic policy consensus has been corporatist since the Reagan years. The main difference is the democrats are willing to blast out the occasional one-off stimulus and the GOP is also willing to do that but a smaller one-off stimulus.

I don't really see collectivism vs individualism as a left-right split. The religious conservative wing of the right is culturally collectivist, the catholic conservatives are also pretty economically collectivist. The liberal mainstream is highly culturally individualistic(well... within the boundaries of acceptable lib behavior). The left can be almost culturally atomistic, if you go into the disown your racist/homophobic relatives areas of the ideology.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#45

Post by everdrive » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

neverywhere wrote: post #38

everdrive wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 years ago nearly the entire country was Christian, but the entire country did not hold the same political beliefs. Protestant vs. Catholic may have been a more pressing divide back then. And how would your argument fare in say ... 2,000-4,000 BC middle east? Each city has its own deity, perhaps part of a pantheon, perhaps not? Are the followers of Chemosh more or less conservative than the followers of Anat? Who…

I would argue that time and again liberals have not reproduced at the level of conservatives/religious. This is why we still have the conservative/religious as the backbone of society. This is why there is probably some genetics underlying religious belief: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147-genes-contribute... It may also explain why so many people are illogical about things like Covid in religious/conserva…

I'd absolutely agree that there is likely a genetic component underlying propensity for religious belief. But "atheist" is not synonymous with "liberal," I suppose that's the crux of what I'm saying.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#46

Post by kongin » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #14

neverywhere wrote: post #7

Conservatives currently out reproduce liberals for whatever reason, for example: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-conservative-fertility-advant... I wonder if it is purely cultural or is there a genetic component? If there is low fertility because of a genetic component, that is likely going to targeted hard by evolution now. (Will evolution select against women getting higher education like Masters or PhD? Because tha…

>(Will evolution select against women getting higher education like Masters or PhD? Because that is one of the biggest predictors of reduced fertility.) Generally speaking evolution does not work on these time scales. Importantly, there is nothing that would make someone "genetically liberal" or "genetically conservative." You might be able to point to higher order traits which may indicate someone being conservative…

>The point is that political movements have short life spans. Perhaps in the tens or hundreds of years, which is not nearly enough for evolution to make any meaningful impact.

Evolution can work on any time scale, including instantly. Look no further than a large asteroid turning into a meteorite, it is evolution done in hours, where everything larger than a cat dies.

For politics: the Nazi party for example had a definite impact on human evolution in Europe as it murdered rather a lot of people who were not blond enough or too blond. The same way the British Empire had a rather profound impact on evolution in the US, Canada and Australia.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#47

Post by crateless » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

ShrigmaMale wrote: post #25

snarf21 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the narrative of the religious but most don't go to learn about what they are doing wrong. They go to find out what other people are doing wrong so they can feel superior and rail against the sin of others. Religion has always been a weapon, it is just easier to wield now.

Christianity is pretty clear on pulling out the log in one's own eye. Since everybody alive is imperfect we shouldn't spend time criticizing others, beyond something like a friend offering advice or parent correcting a child, or protecting people from others. It also is clear it is not our place to judge others. That is the place of the Father (if Jewish) or the Son (if Christian).

Christianity as practiced is a different matter altogether. The ideal fails when it comes into contact with intrinsic human motivations such as desire for power, status, wealth e.t.c

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#48

Post by woodruffw » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

neverywhere wrote: post #42

woodruffw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We cannot afford a mine shaft gap! But more seriously: the furthest left people I know are the ones who grew up around conservatives, particularly in privation (usually one of the strongest signals for high birth rates). These things have a tendency to balance each other by nurture; assuming that people are genetically predestined to be conservative (or liberal) is both silly and incompatible with our observed histor…

> assuming that people are genetically predestined to be conservative (or liberal) is both silly and incompatible But there is evidence of that. I linked to some of these papers in my previous comments.

> But there is evidence of that. I linked to some of these papers in my previous comments.

The IFS is not a credible source. Their previous claim to fame was publishing bogus research on same-sex parenting, presumably because it doesn't align with their values[1].

The other link is a meta-analysis that shows a correlation between family political alignments (quelle surprise!). It doesn't support the more ridiculous claim that the arc of human reproduction bends towards conservativism.

[1]: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Family_S...

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#49

Post by motioncuty » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

mothsonasloth wrote: post #3

My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.

Are they banners or core values and beliefs about the world. Values are pretty important things to align with.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#50

Post by jdsleppy » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

Claudus wrote: post #2

My perception of the mindset of the typical liberal in the past was that it was more about making change for the benefit of everyone in the country (don’t worry conservatives , this will work out for the best). Now it is more about making change that benefits some at the expense of others (screw you conservatives). In order to push political agendas like this, political opposition needs to be more negatively portraye…

The big ticket, agreed upon progressive priorities are still for the benefit of all: Green New Deal, Medicare for all, accessible higher education. I find it more difficult to find policies for the common good coming from conservatives these days. Does anyone have examples?