China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week • Hacker News Board

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#471

Post by bjt2n3904 » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

sulam wrote: post #149

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goodness. If this was the US, I would be losing my mind over such legislation. We must not convince the law makers that video games can be beneficial. That puts the wrong emphasis on the conversation. The emphasis must be, you have no jurisdiction when it comes to raising children. Your laws are invalid. Even if video games are detrimental, you do not decide what is the best interest for a child, the parents do.

Speaking as a parent of two kids, I mostly agree, but also think that some amount of law-making in the interest of children is appropriate and fair. Drawing the line is the interesting part.

Precisely. But the statement, "the government has no business making parenting decisions" needs no qualification. It is an axiomatic statement, and it should not be a controversial statement.

Like you say, what is considered a parenting decision? Reasonable people can have a discussion about this.

But I'm shocked how many people seem to think A) the government actually should make parenting decisions, and B) that things like banning child abuse is an example of the government making a parenting decision.

Neither of these things are reasonable, and so the discussion about what qualifies as a parenting decision will also be unreasonable.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#472

Post by finiteseries » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

sbarre wrote: post #445

luckylion wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age I mean, yes, "other countries" don't have age limits, but it's pretty rare and it's overwhelmingly not what you'd call successful or stable countries.

You don't consider Europe stable or successful?

You don’t consider an age minimum of 18 to purchase alcohol an age limit?

The link they posted even has a pretty picture within of the areas without age limits. They’re all mostly in Africa, Vietnam has a shout at stable and successful though.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#473

Post by wildwex » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

The State should recognize that the responsibility begins with the Parents. If the State wants to promote a level of guidance that aligns with some common sense, then provide information/advice/recommendations to Parents on how to manage their children's growth. Mandates are a draconian move when you've lost control.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#474

Post by powerapple » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

rank0 wrote: post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

A good policy is a good policy, a bad policy is a bad policy, how hard to think this way. People are not talking about great firewall. So next time when people talking about election in US, I should say "killing Iraqis is perfectly fine as well"?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#475

Post by teawrecks » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #422

rank0 wrote: post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

How is limiting the amount of time a Chinese child can play online games worse than barring me from buying Diablo as a teenager? If people are acting comfortable with authoritarian government, it's because we grew up under a quite similar one.

Buying is completely different from playing.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#476

Post by turbohz » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

stoned wrote: post #340

zetazzed wrote: post #166

When I was a kid, I learned a tremendous amount from playing complex games like SimCity, Civilization, and Ultima. I feel like they opened my horizons to feel empowered to do interesting and meaningful things in the world, and they basically substituted for time I would've spent with GI Joe. Now, as an adult, when I do game, it substitutes for time I would've spent exercising, working on coding/ML side projects, or h…

Everyone's experience is different. My conclusion has been that I didn't learn anything from gaming as a child. I wish my parents had done a better job (they did try) steering me from gaming into pursuits I belive (emphasis on I ) promote greater intellectual, emotional and social development than gaming.

This is because not all videogames are equal and, of course, not all people are equal.

Even among online games, there's a huge variety of experiences available.

I'm not against regulation, just not overbroad.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#477

Post by SnowProblem » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:34 PM UTC

Like many other commentors here, I grew up playing primarily skill-based video games, like Legend of Zelda, RollerCoaster Tycoon, Counter-Strike, StarCraft. It was wanting to make these games that led me to become a software developer. But games were different. Even a game like Pokemon, which has a few loot-box mechanics, was only mildly addicting. The first game I remember being extremely addicting was World of Warcraft. It became a habit to simply click the icon as soon as the desktop loaded, and although I do have many good memories, I also know friends that played 8 hours a day for years whose lives look worse off to me. Through loot-boxes, social scores, and now mobile, addiction has been perfected.

And yet, we are not robots. We make our own choices. Parents set limits and create alternatives, and schools and community groups do too. Games also simply get old after a while. Anyone who really wants to stop a gaming addiction can stop it - it is only a question of will. So I find what the CCP is doing abhorrently wrong because their actions create the very dependence on government, and the removal of will at any other level, that perpetuates themselves as a solution. The Western way is messier for sure, but if we want freedom, we have to be OK with mistakes.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#478

Post by 908B64B197 » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #423

uncoder0 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the last year of 'quarantine' for most of the Western world has made people more comfortable with authoritarian governments and actions. It's rather alarming how widespread and quickly this change in ideology has happened.

Temporary and mild authoritarian measures during a once-in-a-century pandemic make complete sense, even to very libertarian people. The U.S. has a track record of such measures being temporary, such as the much more extreme measures taken during WW2. Comparing this kind of thing to what China is doing is drawing a false equivalency. There is no legitimate comparison to be made.

> Temporary

"Ahh, they fell for the temporary fallacy!"

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#479

Post by nickff » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #423

uncoder0 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the last year of 'quarantine' for most of the Western world has made people more comfortable with authoritarian governments and actions. It's rather alarming how widespread and quickly this change in ideology has happened.

Temporary and mild authoritarian measures during a once-in-a-century pandemic make complete sense, even to very libertarian people. The U.S. has a track record of such measures being temporary, such as the much more extreme measures taken during WW2. Comparing this kind of thing to what China is doing is drawing a false equivalency. There is no legitimate comparison to be made.

Which libertarians are you talking to? Every libertarian I've read or heard from has been against these "[t]emporary and mild authoritarian measures". The more popular libertarian publication/website, "Reason" has been against (all?) these measures.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#480

Post by 2snakes » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

Some very famous prodigies made a 'game' out of their field. Terence Tao for example, said he used to make a game out of mathematical solutions. And that he knows more about math after graduate school than before or during.

My personal experience in this was with a imaginative text-based game called a MUD. There were times when I was spending 20-50+ hours a week role-playing and player-killing with a group of friends. I very nearly flunked out of a full-tuition scholarship my freshman year, and left anyway because it wasn't fulfilling to me - I wanted to be a sysadmin, not study liberal arts. In HS it was fun using a PoE adapter to POTS for Internet access.

The things I took away from excessive gaming were "saying the right words to convince other people I have their best interests at heart" (RP for player-run cabals) and "speed reading skimming" "fast-twitch typing" and "writing conversationally."

I probably could have saved myself a lot of trouble financially and academically and emotionally without these 'second lives' but I did see some positive outcomes. Real Life is usually a richer experience socially/experientially... except when it comes to playing make-believe... how much of the intersubjectivity superstructure (sociologically) isn't make-believe...? Perhaps, perhaps.