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China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

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Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#331
post #91

People talking about the benefits of games reminds me of people talking about the benefits of, say, a glass of wine with every meal: it's worth looking into but at the same time it's the sort of thing that obviously doesn't scale linearly with the amount/intensity of consumption. I similarly have mixed feelings as well, but for slightly different reasons. I've read about studies that say that musical training (which…

I agree that playing a game might not improve a class of skills in general like coordination or problem solving, but I don’t think it requires much study to determine improvement of skills directly used. For example, to improve your reading skills you need to practice reading. If a game is providing reading material and motivation to read, it will improve reading skills. Games can also drive motivation in other areas…

> If a game is providing reading material and motivation to read, it will improve reading skills.

Eh. No, that's not quite how that works. If you look at north american elementary school level reading, you may notice that books are often categorized by levels. Some of this has to do with complexity of sentence construction, some has to do with vocabulary, and some has to do with subject matter. The gist of the educational philosophy around reading is that one doesn't get better at reading by plowing through reading material at high volumes, but instead one needs to gradually level up by going through materials of appropriate complexity. One specific problem that teachers look for - especially in kids that advance quickly - is "skimming without understanding", for example (i.e. reading words/sentences phonetically, but without understanding their meaning/context).

Game text is usually not structured with any didactic value in mind (other than maybe appropriate usage of furigana in Japanese in consideration of target audiences). A lot of game categories don't even require any reading beyond recognizing words (which is somewhere between kinder and 1st grade level reading skill)

Also, even in games where text actually matters, you're typically spending a large amount of time doing other things (killing monster or whatever). In addition, the notion of games-as-reading-material ignores a fairly common phenomenon: a lot of people simply spam `A` to skip over dialogues - and even get stuck on one-off gimmicks that rely on reading the text carefully for instructions or clues.

To be clear though, practicing pre-acquired reading skills can help in the sense that repetition legitimizes, but IMHO that's a bit different than improving beyond a current level, and not necessarily all that different from what you get from reading cereal box/shampoo labels or reading comic books.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#332
post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

Just because an authoritarian government made a decision doesn’t necessarily mean the decision was authoritarian.

In the U.S., it’s somehow become popular opinion that the government shouldn’t do anything. Without the ability to make coordinated decisions, the U.S. has predictably fallen behind on a wide variety of metrics (income equality, health care, education, mass transit, etc.)

You should reflect on why you view a government making a decision for the health of its citizens as a bad thing.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#333
post #6
post #5

I wonder why China feels so afraid of games.

They are addictive and conditioning and thus compete with the social conditioning from the Chinese government.

With that logic you'd expect the Chinese government to force the gaming companies to do the conditioning for them...

Addiction to Online/PC Gaming is a real problem in China.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#334
post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

Alcohol pretty much universally prohibited for minors and nobody calls that authoritarian. Governments have responsibility for the wellbeing of citizen, even against themselves (mandatory seatbelts comes to mind).

Meanwhile, gaming addiction can also be very destructive.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is putting off other important things in their life to play video games then that's definitely a problem. However, if people want to set aside 100% of their free time to play video games, I don't think that's any worse than other things people do with their time that we (as a society) hold in high regard such as becoming a chess grandmaster, practicing violin 12 hours / day, watching football games nonstop…

Struggling to come up with a logical counter argument but learning a musical instrument is deeply satisfy as is listening to someone live who is good. Also maybe just in terms of being attractive to other people saying you are a level 122 mage in world of ever crack does not quite have the same allure as being able to captivate a room with your piano playing. Edit when I was about 12 I started playing the guitar non…

> Also maybe just in terms of being attractive to other people saying you are a level 122 mage in world of ever crack does not quite have the same allure as being able to captivate a room with your piano playing.

That is really the main gist of it, women don't care much about video gaming and therefore society condemns it.

Men on the other hand will probably be way more excited about your skills and endeavours in a video game than your ability to play piano, you can listen to the best pianists in the world at any time but sharing stories and thoughts about games is something you need friends for. Evidence: There are tons of discussions about games and gaming everywhere, in youtube channels, outside classrooms etc, while basically nobody talks about how piano practice went. Piano is good to show that you are fit and attract a mate, it isn't good to make friends. And therefore piano is seen as a noble hobby while gaming is seen as a waste of time.

Even listening to music is seen as better than gaming, so the mastery or creative or productive aspects has nothing to do with it.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#336
post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

This isn’t any more authoritarian than the US banning alcohol and cannabis for people under 21. At least China is allowing kids to do a little bit of gaming. Meanwhile in the US young adults and children are outright forbidden from intoxicating substances (as opposed to many European countries where teens can buy low-alcohol beverages.)

Weed is illegal in China and they do have a drinking age there, albeit 18 not 21, so this seems like a false equivalency.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videogames are addicting as all hell and create NEETs. End of story. Parents who are lazy and just want their kids to stop bothering them just give them to their kids without realizing it can destroy their early socialization skills. I love videogames, but jesus I'd limit my kids use of it to either playing socially or with family. If it's alone, it had better be for short amounts of time. Videogames should be social…

> Parents who are lazy and just want their kids to stop bothering them just give them to their kids without realizing it can destroy their early socialization skills. These hypothetical children have spent all day socializing at school- if that gets "destroyed" by a few hours of being left to their own devices, better stop them from reading and playing with Legos alone in their rooms too. Claiming video games ruin so…

Kids need socializing with other kids beyond the 9-3 school days.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i find it amazing how much tolerance is expressed when authoritarian rule is passed "for the kids sake". I feel reminded of the current apple issue. Are people really that ready to accept dictate over their and their kids behaviour in the name of moral and health? Isn't "time spent online" miles away from what the government should be allowed to regulate in your life?

>> Isn't "time spent online" miles away from what the government should be allowed to regulate in your life? For anyone who can think for themselves it is, but the CCP has crippled its population's ability to think independently with their constant, forced propaganda. This brainwashing is a form of violence against its people and I hope they rise up someday, but I don't know how that could happen.

It's a great narrative, but then how do you explain all the 'think of the children' laws passed in other countries including the US?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Half the time I spent gaming was spent figuring out how to get the computer to do what I wanted which lead to a life long interest in technology. I remember the old days of "extended memory" which meant you needed slightly different configuration files for each game. That meant if you wanted to play a bunch of games, it made sense to learn how to write a bat script to config according to what you wanted to play. Yo…

My first computer was a 486 33mhz w/ about 250MB HD . I could only keep a couple games installed at a time, meaning i was always installing and uninstalling. Then I had to play with the autoexec.bat and cmd.com files . Then I broke it. Then i had to fix it cause my mom was still making payments on the computer (like it was a refrigerator with a 10yr lifespan) ... This is how I got into computing. Come to think if of…

+1 for breaking autoexec.bat (on a 386). And getting yelled at by my dad, who needed it for work.

Thankfully, this led to a great decision when he upgraded -- his old machine became mine. If I broke it, well, that was my problem, and I should learn how to fix it. Cue ~10 year old me learning about the Windows / DOS boot process.

In summary, we should encourage kids to play games, but make them harder to install and more prone to break your operating system, because it makes kids smarter.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#340

When I was a kid, I learned a tremendous amount from playing complex games like SimCity, Civilization, and Ultima. I feel like they opened my horizons to feel empowered to do interesting and meaningful things in the world, and they basically substituted for time I would've spent with GI Joe. Now, as an adult, when I do game, it substitutes for time I would've spent exercising, working on coding/ML side projects, or h…

Everyone's experience is different. My conclusion has been that I didn't learn anything from gaming as a child. I wish my parents had done a better job (they did try) steering me from gaming into pursuits I belive (emphasis on I) promote greater intellectual, emotional and social development than gaming.
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