China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week • Hacker News Board

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#271

Post by lnyng » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

hjek wrote: post #199

lnyng wrote: post #110

Original notice from the government: https://web.archive.org/web/20210830120201/http://www.nppa.g... Google translation of the first entry: > Strictly limit the time for providing online game services to minors. Since the implementation of this notice, all online game companies can only provide minors with one-hour online game services from 20 to 21:00 on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and legal holidays. At other times, i…

So it's not just 3 hours per week, it's three specific hours a week , but also only for online games services. It's interesting that the law covers the service , not the client . Now, I wonder what qualifies as an online game service . If I play correspondence chess over email, would the email host be running an online game service? If someone modifies the Battle of Wesnoth network code to run over IRC messages, woul…

I believe this all comes down to enforcement, which is grey in the first place. It also matters if the game got (maliciously) reported to enforcement agents.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#272

Post by mproud » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

VanillaCafe wrote: post #144

bluishgreen wrote: post #131

Title should read: China has forbidden under-18s from playing VIDEO games for more than three hours/week

Title should read: China has forbidden under-18s from playing ONLINE VIDEO games for more than three hours/week. (And even ONLINE may not be quite precise enough.)

I’d read many kids will just use the ID of an older sibling or parent to get around the limitation.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#273

Post by sushid » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

hjek wrote: post #199

lnyng wrote: post #110

Original notice from the government: https://web.archive.org/web/20210830120201/http://www.nppa.g... Google translation of the first entry: > Strictly limit the time for providing online game services to minors. Since the implementation of this notice, all online game companies can only provide minors with one-hour online game services from 20 to 21:00 on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and legal holidays. At other times, i…

So it's not just 3 hours per week, it's three specific hours a week , but also only for online games services. It's interesting that the law covers the service , not the client . Now, I wonder what qualifies as an online game service . If I play correspondence chess over email, would the email host be running an online game service? If someone modifies the Battle of Wesnoth network code to run over IRC messages, woul…

This is a such a classic HN comment:

1. Law does x 2. HN commenter: what about x+y? what about x-1?

The answer to your decentralized chess is that no one would care if it broke the rules or not unless millions of people were hopelessly addicted to it and it warranted a second look.

Your average Zoomer is not interested in decentralized chess or any other gaming service that requires only an intermittent internet connection. I can see local network mobile MOBAs becoming a thing but I'm sure workarounds like that would be eventually squashed as well.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#274

Post by ezekg » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

uncoder0 wrote: post #255

rank0 wrote: post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

I feel like the last year of 'quarantine' for most of the Western world has made people more comfortable with authoritarian governments and actions. It's rather alarming how widespread and quickly this change in ideology has happened.

It's crazy to me because I would have thought the last year or so would produce the opposite effect. But a fearful populace is a malleable populace, I guess.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#275

Post by murph-almighty » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

mrlonglong wrote: post #147

Wouldn't those kids grow up resenting the CCP? If the CCP keeps doing this long enough, they're going to have millions of sullen people and then all it takes is just one spark.

The lay down movement is the start of this, imo.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#276

Post by beaunative » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #115

namelessoracle wrote: post #7

I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as a…

Goodness. If this was the US, I would be losing my mind over such legislation. We must not convince the law makers that video games can be beneficial. That puts the wrong emphasis on the conversation. The emphasis must be, you have no jurisdiction when it comes to raising children. Your laws are invalid. Even if video games are detrimental, you do not decide what is the best interest for a child, the parents do.

What about child protection service, school, free lunch at school, healthcare, and more comparably age 21 restriction for alcohol consumption? Those are all examples of 'jurisdiction over raising children'.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#277

Post by andrepew » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #127

andrepew wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that playing a game might not improve a class of skills in general like coordination or problem solving, but I don’t think it requires much study to determine improvement of skills directly used. For example, to improve your reading skills you need to practice reading. If a game is providing reading material and motivation to read, it will improve reading skills. Games can also drive motivation in other areas…

Lot of things improve reading skills, like reading novels. Arguably, writing video games and novels would seem to be more useful way to improve skills. That's how I got started in programming at all. However, video games just doesn't seem life changing at all compared to all the things you could do.

If your goal is to learn a skill, there are better ways to go about it than gaming. The problem in learning that gaming helps with isn’t learning efficacy —- it is motivation.

As a child, I simply wasn’t interested in novels and enjoying playing games would be a prerequisite to having the motivation to write one.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#278

Post by secondaryacct » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #151

namelessoracle wrote: post #7

I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as a…

The feelings you (I have the same feelings about his as you do) have about this are at an individual level. State mandating how much time someone should spend doing a particular activity is a totally different topic. Even though I agree with the overall intention of this rule/law I vehemently oppose a state imposing such restrictions.

On top of the fact no kid is every going to be legally liable for the breach and therefore no overly unfair oppression is applied on them, you say "someone", but kids have to be taught how to become someone.

Look it's clear it's not their fault the parents are so busy and exhausted by the rat race they cant handle properly their only child they made under family pressure. The gov regulates the consequence of years of inaction while trying to fix the root cause maybe.

I live in China, I m happy kids waste their intelligence and tuition fee on addictive lootboxes game, but mine, ill be way more strict than the government. No way he gets exposed to this kind of shit. Whatever it takes.

My parents threw the computer out when they saw me at 12 playing (addictive for the time but nowhere near what they have now) online games, which forced me to read because nothing else, well if that s what it takes, that s what it takes.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#279

Post by javajosh » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

krsdcbl wrote: post #226

javajosh wrote: post #168

The restriction is specifically "online games". Not offline games. Which is interesting because it implies that offline games are somehow less addictive - but in my experience, offline games can be very engaging, too. But perhaps it's in a more wholesome, problem-solving way? It's kinda impressive that the CCP can make decisions that affect 1B+ humans like this, overnight. I hope it's the right thing to do, for the k…

i find it amazing how much tolerance is expressed when authoritarian rule is passed "for the kids sake". I feel reminded of the current apple issue. Are people really that ready to accept dictate over their and their kids behaviour in the name of moral and health? Isn't "time spent online" miles away from what the government should be allowed to regulate in your life?

Impressive doesn't mean good. I don't have any control over what the CCP does, which is why I hope the action they've taken will not hurt people.

If the CCP decided to ban smoking, it would be a violation of people's rights. But it would also be a net benefit to almost everyone, and to society (health care costs would go down). That kind of authoritarianism is a LOT easier to stomach than, say, putting the Uygars into concentration camps. At least to me. (Singapore is an example of what I would call a mostly-benevolent authoritarian regime, for example.)

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#280

Post by everdrive » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #91

People talking about the benefits of games reminds me of people talking about the benefits of, say, a glass of wine with every meal: it's worth looking into but at the same time it's the sort of thing that obviously doesn't scale linearly with the amount/intensity of consumption. I similarly have mixed feelings as well, but for slightly different reasons. I've read about studies that say that musical training (which…

Video games work best as a lesser of many evils, and come with a few caveats: If you watch a lot of TV, it's hard to argue that video games are a worse use of your time. Video games do have some legitimate benefits, but it's probably hard to say that they are more beneficial than other things you could be doing with your time. (ie, reading difficult literature or articles vs. reading RPG text.)

However, people aren't robots, and can't spend 100% of their time doing things which are strictly beneficial. Sometimes you just have to relax and do what you like. Further, not all worthwhile activities truly benefit you in some measurable way. All those "play Mozart for your child to increase his intelligence" CDs were completely fraudulent. And by extension you could claim that listening to beautiful classical music does not actually really benefit you. But of course beautiful music is one of the best aspects of life. The only difference I would say is that it seems impossible to become addicted to classical music in the same way that someone might become addicted to video games.

In this sense, I agree with the parent that video game addiction is the greatest concern here, and is a direction video games have been moving in for a long time. It's interesting that he mentions very easy gameplay mixed with behavioral feedback loops. I can get QUITE wrapped up in Dark Souls, but I am never just playing it on autopilot. It's too hard, and requires too much of my focus. It's not to say that it's necessarily all that difficult, but I can't just zone out. If my mood is wrong, if I am impatient, if my focus is poor, I will play badly. This is explicitly not the case with addictive gameplay-loop games which approach television-levels of sloth in the sense that you can play them indefinitely with any amount of focus.