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The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

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Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#81

Post by mclightning »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #80
mclightning wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My manager would ask everyone would to raise their hands from keyboard randomly in a half-joking manner... to ensure everyone is focusing to the meeting, and not working. or, point out "hey you have something else on screen because white screenlight flashed on your face" Leaving this company in a month, although they're paying me 2x the local average SE salary here in Sweden.

While calling it out like that is crass, I do wish people wouldn't do other things during meetings. I get that these meetings are presumably over-long, but perhaps that's because half the participants aren't actually paying attention...

Having %100 attention of all participants is for sure an expectation to be had, in an ideal scenario where meetings are organized in an ideal configuration of members/agenda/duration.

But if you invite everyone to every meeting, have no agenda, and have awkward silences in the meeting you called while trying to come up with stuff to talk about... then surely people will try to get some work done in parallel.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#82

Post by xyzelement »

nxpnsv wrote: post #30
xyzelement wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> treatment of Linux as a second class citizen worked out to be in my favour. I don't know if being able to "get away with" not turning on your video is really in your favor. I am probably rare in this, but probably every month I end up seeing that someone is visibly stressed/exhausted on a Zoom, ask them about it and we usually end up talking about it and solving it. Like "holly shit noisy_boy, you look really tired…

I hope you save comments like that for 1:1, clearly it is overstepping for a standup...

> I hope you save comments like that for 1:1, clearly it is overstepping for a standup...

It depends on the person, team, and situation. Obviously there are more sensitive contexts where discretion is needed.

When I don't think that's necessary, I err on the side of just asking. I want my team to do this to each other too.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#83

Post by lostphilosopher »

eloeffler wrote: post #59
blitzar wrote: post #51

How about "The Fatiguing Effects of In-Person Meetings"? > popular press discussion of virtual meeting fatigue (i.e.,“Zoom fatigue”), described as a feeling of being drained and lacking energy following a day of virtual meetings. I am sure I am not the only person to have felt the effects of so-called 'meeting fatigue', being drained and lacking in energy following a day of sitting in meetings in person. This piece r…

True, this is often compared to the "traditional" way off physical meetings without reflecting that they can laso be seen as an alternative to something else istead of being something like the baseline. And there actually is meeting fatigue caused by often badly ventilated meeting rooms.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markmurphy/2019/03/21/all-that-... (just as a reference for that last point)

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#84

Post by ubermonkey »

I have worked at home, or as a high-travel person, for almost 20 years. It started when I hung my own shingle out after the dot-com crash, and then continued into two small firms.

The first one folded in 2007, but I've been with the second one since then (so, 14 years this month). Both firms had geographically diverse teams, and neither have any office space anywhere.

Until about 10 years ago, I did a lot of client-facing travel. Then, all of a sudden (seemingly), that stopped. In retrospect I think it was because in-person visits for our work (implementation of our project management system with large-scale customers) really does not need it. What you need is time with us so we can help you configure, and train you, and troubleshoot with you, etc -- and that works GREAT over GoToMeeting (or WebEx or whatever you prefer).

If you want us on site, you're paying for WAY more hours, plus you're paying for flights, hotels, meals, rental cars, etc. AND if we have to go to you, we can't do other work for other customers while we're in your office, which makes US less efficient, so the telepresence approach is a big win on both sides.

*We have never ever ever turns on cameras* as part of this work. This was true before COVID, because they were not a value-add at all. This is especially true during COVID when so many are working with home-grade internet packages with really crappy upload speeds. The video sabotages the audio and screensharing, and brings nothing useful in return, at least for us.

I'm waiting for the rest of the economy to realize this. Several of our customer parties are in organizations that have decided YOU MUST TURN ON YOUR CAMERA or whatever, and we occasionally get questions about our refusal. As vendors, though, we're in a position to just say no.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#85

Post by ubermonkey »

Leszek wrote: post #20

Anecdotal, and I don't want it to sound like my example is intended to disprove this research or anyone else's experience, but I personally find it extremely fatiguing if people _don't_ turn on their video. More specifically, when I'm talking in a meeting or giving a presentation, I find it very helpful to see other people, see their reactions, see whether they laugh at jokes or look confused when I'm bad at explaini…

I've been remote a long time -- see my other comment uptopic -- and part of my job involves long workshops for training or configuration. I absolutely agree some aspects of this would be easier in person, but I do NOT think they'd be easier with cameras on, because mostly when these workshops are happening the screen is dominated by either a presentation or someone's shared screen so we can work together. A column of postage-stamp sized faces isn't going to help with engagement-measurement.

I did a lot of in-person presentations before, and one thing I had to learn is that remote facilitation/presentation is a different skill. You figure out other ways to discern who's keeping up, e.g.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#86

Post by ubermonkey »

matsemann wrote: post #44

What I find fatiguing when doing a whole-day of meetings remote compared to in person, is that there is no small-talk, no breaks where you get to know the others etc. Just business for X hours straight.

My approach to this -- and I get that it comes from a position of privilege -- is that I encourage (well, almost enforce, or insist on) a bit of small-talk and socialization at the beginnings of all my meetings.

I can do this because I'm almost always leading or facilitating, and quite often I meet with the same set of people several times a week for several weeks, so I get some sense of their personal lives. "How was your daughter's birthday?" or whatever goes a long way to normalizing the interaction, creating a sort of soft-space for chat, and keeping it from being wall-to-wall business.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#87

Post by dheera »

jonhohle wrote: post #18
dheera wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only works if they are on a laptop. I work off a desktop with two 28" monitors and my camera sits above them in the center, and the meeting has to be on the left monitor or the right monitor, not straddling the middle, so you will never get that feeling of me looking directly at you. I am, however, thinking of making something that deepfakes the perspective change correctly.

Or, you know, move your camera 14 inches to one side or the other.

Won't do much, it still looks at me from above because the monitor is so big.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#88

Post by makeitdouble »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #80
mclightning wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My manager would ask everyone would to raise their hands from keyboard randomly in a half-joking manner... to ensure everyone is focusing to the meeting, and not working. or, point out "hey you have something else on screen because white screenlight flashed on your face" Leaving this company in a month, although they're paying me 2x the local average SE salary here in Sweden.

While calling it out like that is crass, I do wish people wouldn't do other things during meetings. I get that these meetings are presumably over-long, but perhaps that's because half the participants aren't actually paying attention...

There is an optimum somewhere on the line.

Even if you have 5 people for 30 min on the call, it's totally understandable that one or two of them find it mildly boring but here and there relevant. For instance they are expert in one of the field touched by your project and they sometimes need to react.

In your ideal state, the choice is for them to leave the meeting altogether and find something else they can focus more on, or to focus 100% on the meeting and spend half of their time religiously listening to stuff they don't really need to hear.

In my experience the result of the second choice is people being more and more reticent to come to meetings, not just because of some hypothetical time lost, but because it's mentally painful.

As an added bonus, instead of having one meeting with 5 people, you need to make 3 with only the parts each members fully care about, and eventually a few more down the line when what they each say in isolation doesn't make sense when assembled together.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#89

Post by eloeffler »

lostphilosopher wrote: post #83
eloeffler wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, this is often compared to the "traditional" way off physical meetings without reflecting that they can laso be seen as an alternative to something else istead of being something like the baseline. And there actually is meeting fatigue caused by often badly ventilated meeting rooms.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markmurphy/2019/03/21/all-that-... (just as a reference for that last point)

Thanks

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#90

Post by rareform »

tkgally wrote: post #43
mirekrusin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avatars should be solution for you then, right?

Yes, avatars would help me remember students better. They would need to be usable in Zoom, as that is the platform our university has chosen for the time being.

at my Uni many professors require a Zoom avatar exactly for this purpose. Even if it isn't a picture of the student's face it is still useful to associate an image with them.
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