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Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

economist.com

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Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#171

Post by bobbytit »

masklinn wrote: post #156
bobbytit wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and temperature.. without the warmth you guys are so scared of there would be no life

> without the warmth you guys are so scared of there would be no life You don't seem to realise that heating things up is pretty easy, even in a preindustrial society, while cooling things is extremely difficult and there is a hard and quite low limit to how hot we can remain for long periods of time. At 35 WBT we're done for, literally can't cool down, die in a few hours even with no activity whatsoever, in the shad…

Wet bulb temp is the latest wank in what has been the biggest propaganda exercise of all time. You have been misled. You are being deliberately turned against the human race.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#172

Post by yosito »

spython wrote: post #95
yosito wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only now their migration is greatly accelerated Just curious, do you have data that backs up this claim?

How do you imagine such data to be formatted? Landscape and ecological niches are hard to quantify, as they are so permeable and often lack clear borders. Not easy to put them into an excel spreadsheet. I find this article on the topic really helpful: https://placesjournal.org/article/landscape-migration/ And the project by the same author quite inspiring: http://www.resilientbayarea.org/unlock-alameda-creek

If you can't quantify it, then you can't make a quantitative claim about it.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#173

Post by hack-news »

germandiago wrote: post #116
hack-news wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "correct" climate is one that isn't changing so fast that we'll need to globally rethink the logistics of food production. It's one that does not include being in the middle of an extinction event.

There have been fatalist predictions since ever and about so many topics. In my own country, Spain, you could find an article about Maldives shrunk in 2010 and with no human-consumable water in 1992, that would make 200,000 people abandon the islands. It never happened. The article from 1988. Also about a lack of food and a hunger in 1975. Syberian weather for 2000 in 1970 article for UK... And many I am not going to…

It's not a prediction, we're in the middle of an extinction event.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#174

Post by hack-news »

echopurity wrote: post #103

Stage 5 climate denialism: "It's too Late!" https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97... Isn't HN an "ideology free" zone? Why do they allow nonstop ideology from The Economist? Not to mention the paywall.

Only dumb ideologies are allowed here.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#175

Post by BoHerfIIIJrEsq »

tsimionescu wrote: post #152
davidhbolton wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend is not clear and undeniable. Climate science is at best contentious and certainly highly politicised. All of the IPCC predictions of temperature rises have not happened. Sea level rises? The Maldives have been building several airports and both Al Gore and Barack Obama bought very expensive properties ($9 million and $15 million) by the sea. Hardly the actions of someone who believes flooding is imminent.

Each of the last 10 years have been the hottest years on record. 18 of the last 20 years have as well. There is not a single credible scientist who doesn't believe anthropogenic climate change is real - many fault the IPCC predictions for being optimistic. Greenland is now known to be inexorably thawing. This year has seen places on the globe (e.g. southern Canada) beat previous all-time temperature records by 5 degr…

This is just a passionate proclamation of the tenets of something similar to a religious faith. Each of your possibly falsifiable claims could be argued with. The rest of the statements have various weasel words like "credible" scientist or "sane and honest" denying, etc, so any scientists who disagrees is not credible, and any denial is insane or dishonest.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#176

Post by BoHerfIIIJrEsq »

tsimionescu wrote: post #133
BoHerfIIIJrEsq wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As it will get hotter, hundreds of millions will die of heat stroke and water and food shortages We used to die in droves from heatwaves and water and food shortages, but we don't anymore, because of technology. Is increased CO2 going to harm crop yields? No, it's the opposite. Was increased CO2 bad for life on ancient earth? No, it was the opposite -- earth used to be an endless jungle teeming with life. It seems…

We still die because of heatwaves and water and food shortages. It doesn't happen so much in the colonial empires of Europe and the USA, but it is still happening in most other places on Earth. Any attempt to export the lifestyle of average US and European citizens to the billions of other people would accelerate the problem even more, requiring an ever-increased rate of energy use to maintain livable conditions. The…

> They insist on this because we can actually quantify almost precisely how this is the fault of human activity.

No, we can't. We live in a complex system. It's basically impossible to untangle cause and effect.

> The rate of global warming is almost perfectly matched to greenhouse gas emissions.

Well, this is an interesting issue. There's a result with very serious implications floating around that I've been waiting for someone to reproduce.

The gist of it is that when NOAA measurement stations fail or get retired, they're replaced with virtual stations that generate fabricated data generated by models that assume the CO2 hypothesis. That'd be bad, huh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzGPq9LSjEw

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#177

Post by spython »

yosito wrote: post #172
spython wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you imagine such data to be formatted? Landscape and ecological niches are hard to quantify, as they are so permeable and often lack clear borders. Not easy to put them into an excel spreadsheet. I find this article on the topic really helpful: https://placesjournal.org/article/landscape-migration/ And the project by the same author quite inspiring: http://www.resilientbayarea.org/unlock-alameda-creek

If you can't quantify it, then you can't make a quantitative claim about it.

Just read the linked article, man.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#178

Post by esarbe »

bobbytit wrote: post #122
mark_l_watson wrote: post #110

Sorry for being off topic here: I get pushback on this opinion from my friends, so I expect this to be an unpopular opinion here also: the cost of meat should be priced to also cover external costs of water and harm to the environment. I enjoy a steak once or twice a month, so I am not talking from a vegan-purity perspective. I think that there should be a tax on meat that directly supported research and infrastructu…

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. C. S. Le…

Yeah, sorry, no.

Unfortunately, today's robber barons appetites are never satisfied, they never sleep and the devastation they wreck is destroying the livelihood of all mankind.

They need to put in check, not matter how good of an author of surreal children's fiction Lewis was.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#179

Post by tsimionescu »

bobbytit wrote: post #171
masklinn wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without the warmth you guys are so scared of there would be no life You don't seem to realise that heating things up is pretty easy, even in a preindustrial society, while cooling things is extremely difficult and there is a hard and quite low limit to how hot we can remain for long periods of time. At 35 WBT we're done for, literally can't cool down, die in a few hours even with no activity whatsoever, in the shad…

Wet bulb temp is the latest wank in what has been the biggest propaganda exercise of all time. You have been misled. You are being deliberately turned against the human race.

You have this precisely the opposite. The huge propaganda machine of industrial interests has been leading an effort to bury this very real threat to humanity for 50 years, in the name of corporate profits.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#180

Post by morsch »

morsch wrote: post #47
88840-8855 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It IS cold compared to the last 20 years AND to other regions in Europe. Can you please stop spreading lies with "it is not cold". Get your facts straight before you post anecdotes that your plants are growing "like hell". https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/german-2021-wheat-crop-to-fa...

Compared to 1961-1990, June and July were pretty warm. The harvest has been bad due to the rain, a few weeks ago they were expecting an above average harvest. https://www.dwd.de/DE/presse/pressemitteilungen/DE/2021/2021... https://www.dwd.de/DE/presse/pressemitteilungen/DE/2021/2021...

But you're right about August, which was 0.1C colder than the reference period, for the first time since 2014. Though first and foremost, it was very rainy. The report was released today: https://www.dwd.de/DE/presse/pressemitteilungen/DE/2021/2021...
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