I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem • Hacker News Board

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#261

Post by scruple » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

tony0x02 wrote: post #248

scruple wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I also don't think everyone who is currently homeless in CA is in as bad shape as the ones you most notice. I beg to differ. I've spent significant time around what could be broadly categorized as "the homeless" in California, specifically in LA and OC, over the last 13 years. As recently as 3 days ago, I was searching for a mentally ill and homeless family member in LA. Last I heard he was on the coast, but I…

> If you offered an SRO to most of the people that I've come across in the last 10 years, they'd tell you to go fuck yourself. Why? Sorry if question is dumb..

Many of them prefer their perceived freedom living on the street vs. being placed into a living situation they didn't chose. In the handful of cases I am familiar with, including my brother in law, it's owed to untreated/neglected/self-medicated mental illness that manifests itself as a deep paranoia and distrust of authority types.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#262

Post by kory » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

sershe wrote: post #185

The only reason I don't laugh quite out loud is that I have a misfortune of living in Seattle and my wife refuses to move until something "actually happens" to us, as opposed to stuff going on 15 blocks away. California is not suffering from others' "broken" policy, but only from its own. It's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's great that there are people out there who concentrate the entire problem around themse…

I’m in the same boat. Given, we’re in nice a part of the city with 2016-level issues. But given that spiteful urban voters want to bring down nicer neighborhoods instead of lifting up their own with sensible law enforcement, it’s only a matter of time until it hits us too.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#263

Post by kyleee » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

rodarmor wrote: post #196

The post doesn't seem to offer any evidence for its claim.

You've also failed to provide evidence of your claim, so there isn't any utility in your comment unfortunately. Add an example or two of claims lacking evidence and perhaps some discussion can take place

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#264

Post by kory » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

beanjuice wrote: post #240

sershe wrote: post #185

The only reason I don't laugh quite out loud is that I have a misfortune of living in Seattle and my wife refuses to move until something "actually happens" to us, as opposed to stuff going on 15 blocks away. California is not suffering from others' "broken" policy, but only from its own. It's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's great that there are people out there who concentrate the entire problem around themse…

Would you mind elaborating on what you are afraid of happening, and what you think the cause is?

Rampant property crime with no legal repercussions is common here. People shoot up in parks (and now on school property!) and the city is now denying permits for kids to use parks because of the camps.

The problem is a learned helplessness of the electorate combined with reasonable voters leaving, resulting in people who want to double down on the status quo replacing them.

There is zero political will to enforce vagrancy, open air drug use, and private property law if someone is living in a tent. No standards == these people feel empowered to do whatever they want, while contributors to the tax base are treated poorly. I still get a ticket 30 mins after parking too far from the curb, and the city council does not like that I make a good income and own a single family home.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#265

Post by germinalphrase » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

sershe wrote: post #185

The only reason I don't laugh quite out loud is that I have a misfortune of living in Seattle and my wife refuses to move until something "actually happens" to us, as opposed to stuff going on 15 blocks away. California is not suffering from others' "broken" policy, but only from its own. It's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's great that there are people out there who concentrate the entire problem around themse…

What large city can you live in where nothing “actually happens” somewhere within 15 blocks?

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#266

Post by ecf » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #257

Every state believes they are America's dumping ground. That doesn't change the fact that the overall rate of homelessness pre covid had been declining for years in america yet increasing only on the west coast. That alone contradicts the premise.

> had been declining for years in America yet increasing only on the west coast

> That alone contradicts the premise

Other states throw their homeless on busses bound for CA so they can have declining numbers while only the west is growing.

That’s literally the exact premise.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#267

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

tony0x02 wrote: post #251

DoreenMichele wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeless people often go where the weather is tolerable. Many homeless people prefer to camp outside rather than stay in the shelter system. California is the overall best state to camp outside long-term and year-round. It then becomes a recipe for remaining homeless because the housing is so expensive. It's easy to camp out, not easy to afford rent. If you can't afford housing anywhere in the US, going someplace you…

> Many homeless people prefer to camp outside rather than stay in the shelter system Why?

Most shelters have serious problems, like mold. They aren't actually safe because you can be harassed, assaulted or have your stuff stolen by other homeless people.

A high percentage of homeless people have health issues. This means putting a bunch of them together exposes already sick people to cross contamination with other diseases, making their health worse.

They have curfews and other rules making it one step removed from a prison. If you have any funds of any kind, some will charge you for being there, making you essentially their prisoner with no means to escape.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#268

Post by Comevius » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #243

Maybe a shift of perspective is in order. What if the homeless "problem" is merely the most visible symptom of a modern depression that has been underway for many years? You expect a homeless problem in a depression. You expect drug use to cripple large segments of society in a depression. You don't expect the problems that come with a depression to be fixable. And you expect those with means to jealously guard them…

This kind of shift in perspective will never happen, people can no longer look into the eye of this massive crisis.

We live in frozen calm of the normalcy bias and it will be our collective downfall.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#269

Post by j8hn » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

AngryData wrote: post #193

j8hn wrote: post #139

I don't have any experience with the housing issue in California, but got involved a while back trying to find pragmatic solutions in Seattle. The situation is a mess and there is an entire "homeless industrial complex" complicating matters here, rife with fraud, misspending and cronyism. Every year it seems like many millions of dollars more are spent on this issue but it keeps getting visibly worse. At first I was…

How about rehab and housing at the same time? Many people didn't become serious addicts until after they became homeless.

In regards to those living on the streets, the main cause of them being homeless is substance abuse and mental illness.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#270

Post by betwixthewires » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #145

betwixthewires wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they hacks and not solutions? If smaller living spaces for smaller family units is a solution wouldn't they be solutions and not hacks? If people actually want smaller housing and choose these things, aren't they real solutions? Mobile homes date back to the same time as the modern suburb, were designed to target a similar demographic and are pretty ubiquitous across most of rural US, as are RVs in many place…

It's fine that they exist. The problem is we've zoned out of existence other options. These don't make for car-free living in walkable neighborhoods. And they don't appreciate in value the way standard housing typically does.

Can you give me some examples of housing that has been zoned out of existence that you have in mind? Apartment buildings, duplexes and renting a room are not illegal in the vast majority of municipalities.

RVs absolutely make for walkable neighborhoods, and everyone gets a little garden space too if they want. Some RV parks even have a grocery store inside.

I thought we were looking at solutions to homelessness? Why does a dwelling have to appreciate in value? This appreciation of price in the current housing market is not natural and is the result of increasing population, artificial restriction of building more housing and is arguably a symptom of the root cause of the homelessness problem in the US. If the goal is solving homelessness how can that be expected to continue?