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I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

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Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#131

Post by betwixthewires »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #110
betwixthewires wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally live in a very very small home and live minimally and it cost me almost nothing. I'm sure I lucked out compared to the average person. So what is the reason that these smaller homes aren't more common? I would think that if there were a market for these homes someone would cash in on it, so is it zoning? Is it people's aversion to building their own homes themselves and the service-ification of everythin…

We need to remove administrative barriers, like zoning barriers. And we need financing mechanisms. The easiest thing to finance in the US is single family detached homes. Unsurprisingly, there's a lot of them. It's quite hard to finance some types of housing popular in other countries, like cohousing.

I'm right there with you on administrative barriers.

What do you think of other housing options more common in the US, such as mobile homes, RVs, duplexes/quadplexes etc? What about ideas like renting rooms, dormitory style housing with shared spaces and things like that?

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#132

Post by DoreenMichele »

betwixthewires wrote: post #131
DoreenMichele wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to remove administrative barriers, like zoning barriers. And we need financing mechanisms. The easiest thing to finance in the US is single family detached homes. Unsurprisingly, there's a lot of them. It's quite hard to finance some types of housing popular in other countries, like cohousing.

I'm right there with you on administrative barriers. What do you think of other housing options more common in the US, such as mobile homes, RVs, duplexes/quadplexes etc? What about ideas like renting rooms, dormitory style housing with shared spaces and things like that?

Mobile homes, RVs and the Tiny House movement are basically hacks to get around a broken system. The first tiny house was put on wheels to get around the zoning codes rather than fight them (I'm old enough, I read some of the earliest coverage of it back when it was a new idea).

Those things are proliferating mostly because we won't fix our broken system. Not mostly because people actually prefer that stuff.

Dorms, duplexes, renting a room etc fall under what I advocate for: SROs and Missing Middle Housing.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#133

Post by dang »

alisonkisk wrote: post #11
eplanit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government website stats support the claim: ~29% of the entire US homeless population is in California, which is disproportional when compared to other state population densities.[1] That said, the piece doesn't offer much constructive advice on how to fix it. Californians have been witnessing the very real, large increase in tent cities, addicts, feces, ... for years now, but so far they still vote for the same…

The callous disregard for human life exhibited in this post is sickening. My office has a janitorial staff. Why don't public spaces? Too many people in public parks? Claw back more public park space, maybe from the automobile lanes and parks that infest our cities and spew far more stinky poison than people living rough.

Would you please review the site guidelines and stick to them? They include:

"Please don't fulminate."

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

"Eschew flamebait."

Edit: actually, because you're repeatedly abusing this site, I've banned this and several other accounts. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28335658

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#134

Post by issa »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #127
issa wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A HELOC is, literally, a line of credit. You can do anything you want with that money: start a business, go to college, buy bitcoin, buy another property, etc.

... anything you want, but you have to repay what you borrowed? It's true the interest rate is likely better than many other kinds of credit, but it's still a loan.

I'm sort of at a loss for understanding the misunderstanding here. Someone without equity in their home probably cannot get a loan of any sort. Access to capital, as a loan or any other form, is a huge thing. So if your home gives you access to that loan, this is important.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#135

Post by issa »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #125
issa wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming that having low income housing somehow impacts the price of higher end housing, and I am not sure that this is true. Would a person with a million dollar house be hurt if we built 100,000 more million dollar houses? Yes. Would that same homeowner be hurt if we built 100,000 cheap rental apartments? It certainly doesn't seem like it. However much property values fall due to less people looking for low…

> Would that same homeowner be hurt if we built 100,000 cheap rental apartments? Of course they would. Million dollar houses in many parts of the country are so insanely expensive not because they’re luxury goods; they’re expensive because supply is so constrained that even mediocre houses are extremely scarce relative to demand. People buying million dollar houses in e.g. the Bay Area know that their house is not pa…

I still think you are underappreciating the difference between people who buy homes and people who rent. To buy a house, you need a certain income, a down payment etc. The people who live in low income housing have none of those things and were never potential buyers anyway.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#136

Post by fortran77 »

Talanes wrote: post #123
lbarrow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

55% is one of the lowest home ownership rates in the country. If high levels of home ownership drive policies that prohibit new construction and drive up prices, how is it that places like Minnesota, with a home ownership rate in the mid-70s, are so cheap to live in?

It's worth noting that property taxes in California are only re-assessed on ownership change or new construction. There's no downside to having the value of your home balloon as much as possible.

Sure there is. Your property tax still goes up 2% a year if home prices rise. That's more than inflation has been.

Rising prices also traps people -- they can't afford to move anywhere unless they go far away.

As a CA homeowner (nortgage paid up!) I'd be much happier if house prices were half off what they are.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#137

Post by fortran77 »

epistasis wrote: post #76
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if, for argument's sake, one accepts your claim, it's quite clear that the policies are not going to change. I'm a native Californian who left and now lives overseas, and every visit back has not only provided a stark demonstration of California's decline, but also taught me that many Californians refuse to believe their lying eyes. I have friends and family who in the past 5 years have lost homes to fire, seen…

Things are changing, as the entrenched interests die from old age. Last year, Prop 15 nearly eliminated the Prop 13 for commercial properties. That this was even within 10% points of passing is such a huge change as to be unthinkable. 15 years ago I would rant about Prop 13 and get nothing but hate from others for my position. These days I'm as likely to find somebody ranting about the evils of Prop 13 as I am to ini…

> the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person.

I like Prop 13. I'd be more than happy to meet you in person.

California has the highest sales tax and income tax in the nation. The amount of revenue it gets from property tax is near the median for the U.S. I think they get enough money and don't need more.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#138

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Waterluvian wrote: post #63
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged) "earn" 100k in paper money year in year out - magic! Is this appreciation consistent with the rest of the country, or areas with comparable quality of life? If you only have one home, real estate appreciation only makes you money if it’s higher for your house relati…

For the most part this is an important point. But there is a minor perk that a greatly appreciating house gives you considerably more equity to act as a large rainy day battery via a home equity line of credit or traditional loans backed by home equity. My home appreciated 20% last two years and while I hate the condition of the housing market, this unlocked a lot of equity years earlier than I expected it to.

Unless you are taking that equity out via home equity loans, it doesn’t really matter until you sell. My home went up 18% this year but…so what? It’s not like we are leaving anytime soon. It’s just a paper gain that could be gone next year.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#139

Post by j8hn »

I don't have any experience with the housing issue in California, but got involved a while back trying to find pragmatic solutions in Seattle.

The situation is a mess and there is an entire "homeless industrial complex" complicating matters here, rife with fraud, misspending and cronyism.

Every year it seems like many millions of dollars more are spent on this issue but it keeps getting visibly worse.

At first I was in the "Housing First" crowd, but after my experiences I would say I more firmly believe in "Rehab First".

A local news station released a great documentary called "Seattle is Dying". It has 10 million views since released a couple of years ago. https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw

The sequel is "The Fight For the Soul of Seattle". https://youtu.be/WijoL3Hy_Bw

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#140

Post by seanmcdirmid »

api wrote: post #90
Schnitz wrote: post #26

> Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Nobody talks about the hard truth: The homeownership rate in California is ~55% and therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going. For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged)…

At this point the only economically rational thing for the other 45% to do is leave. Yes California is awesome in lots of ways, but it's someone else's house (literally) and you don't really live there. If enough people do this, the NIMBYs will get what they deserve as home values crash.

If enough people leave because housing is too expensive, then eventually housing stops being too expensive and people stop leaving. Eventually an equilibrium is reached, but that we might be at that equilibrium already if California’s population isn’t crashing.
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