Arm China Has Gone Rogue • Hacker News Board

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#601

Post by smlckz » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:53 AM UTC

post_break wrote: post #107

matheusmoreira wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western businesses will never care. They don't care that the chinese destroy the planet. They don't care that the chinese manipulate the quality of the products they manufacture on their behalf. They don't care that the chinese sell counterfeits at huge markups in markets developed countries couldn't care less about. The only thing they care about is money. They'll never stop doing business with China until it stops…

We would sell the moon and the planet if it meant profit.

Aren't we, now?

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#602

Post by jjeaff » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

karaterobot wrote: post #484

Phileosopher wrote: post #287

This is difficult to parse in my Western mind. I've grown up with a constant understanding of implicit liberties, so much so that I have the freedom to openly _discuss_ my general distrust of the government. The events that float by in HN are outliers: threats of more risk, but statistically unusual enough that they're stories of interest. This means that living and acting in a country where your very _thoughts_ are…

I know that businesses in China are tied to the CCP in inextricable ways, but this take on the story doesn't make sense to me. This article was about a private takeover of a semiconductor business, what does it have to do with free speech, surveillance, or the government taking over anything?

The fact that the court system and government is not respecting property rights. It's not a private takeover. It's theft. And the Chinese government is allowing it because it serves their purposes.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#603

Post by factorialboy » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:25 AM UTC

ap0110 wrote: post #528

factorialboy wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I slap when when you come over to my home, because it's rule of my home. When you invite me, I take advantage of your hospitality and enjoy some tea.

There is reason I'm willing to be slapped by you. May be is your daughter or w Just like some company do tech transfer in exchange for access to the market. You are welcome to take advantage of my hospitality and tea. But do you know what is in the tea? You might get addicted to the tea that you willing to obey me. Just like sanction ( weaponizing dollar )

So you concede that China imposes unfair and unilateral constraints on foreign businesses, and you are asserting that it's alright because foreign businesses _still_ have something to gain.

But you don't mention what that something is. Stockholm syndrome? Or a propaganda bot user?

The question stands: Why should anyone put up with a one-sided, unfair trade regime.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#604

Post by klelatti » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #360

klelatti wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dylan522p says above: > Chips themselves can be sold, yes. The IP cannot be licensed to non Chinese based semi firms. I'd be astonished if licenses to Chinese SoC designers prevented products with those SoC's being sold outside China. So RockChip, Spreadtrum etc would be cut off from the rest of the world? Or forced to license separately with Arm UK for chips for products that are to be exported? Seems very unlikely.…

> Or forced to license separately with Arm UK for chips for products that are to be exported? Seems very unlikely. Or do nothing and look at their chips being turned back to sand as soon as they land in a western country.

By who and on what grounds? You need to point out a law they have actually broken.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#605

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:36 PM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #576

smhost wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America killed a million Muslims just in the time that I've been alive. China has done nothing so psychopathic and cruel.

Again, laughable. Care to justify that figure? That's not nearly as bad as the 16 billion Uighurs the Chinese have in camps right now.

[deleted]

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#606

Post by jhgb » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:48 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #272

jhgb wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you mean by "existing technology". Do electronic devices using quantum effects in solid state materials count? There you have the whole semiconductor industry. What about exploiting the behavior of charge carriers in vacuum? There you have the whole vacuum tube industry. Etc. etc. Before these things existed, nothing even remotely similar was being utilized by human civilization in our technological v…

> Do electronic devices using quantum effects in solid state materials count? There you have the whole semiconductor industry. That was invented by Jagadish Chandra Bose in Bangladesh, who built working millimeter-wave radios using Schottky diodes in 01894. Of course, he didn't understand the quantum effects, but then, semiconductor diodes were in wide industrial use (mostly in the rich West) for decades before Shock…

> That was invented by Jagadish Chandra Bose in Bangladesh, who built working millimeter-wave radios using Schottky diodes in 01894.

The effect in question was discovered by a German two decades earlier: https://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/semiconductor-...

> and of course since 01949 quantum theory has been a field of investigation dominated by non-Western people. As you may be aware, there have been significant improvements in solid-state electronics since 01949

Not quite sure how that matters for the question I was answering, which was emphatically NOT "is there a field of inventions historically wholly monopolized by the west". The question was for "AN example of a western invention not based on existing technology" - one would be sufficient.

> but it was built on the Hindu ayurvedic techniques of mercury distillation

?????? We're not talking about pseudoscience here.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#607

Post by javajosh » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:55 PM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #587

javajosh wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Americans should start trying to start more on-shore factories. (Just thinking about that makes me laugh. The environmentalists, the labor folks, the real-estate folks, the local and state tax authorities -- all will either slow things and/or get their cut. From what I understand the sad truth is that the CCP's real economic advantage lies in ignoring the environment, workers rights, and real-estate rights. So…

Don't forget "climate change", which people with "luxury beliefs" believe can just go away if we move all manufacturing to China and make it completely infeasible to do any on-shore manufacturing. Instead it gets worse, since they won't be subject to any restrictions until IIRC 2030, and you have to burn oil to get stuff from there to here.

Indeed. Two aphorisms come to mind: out of sight, out of mind. And: perfect is the enemy of good.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#608

Post by kragen » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #606

kragen wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do electronic devices using quantum effects in solid state materials count? There you have the whole semiconductor industry. That was invented by Jagadish Chandra Bose in Bangladesh, who built working millimeter-wave radios using Schottky diodes in 01894. Of course, he didn't understand the quantum effects, but then, semiconductor diodes were in wide industrial use (mostly in the rich West) for decades before Shock…

> That was invented by Jagadish Chandra Bose in Bangladesh, who built working millimeter-wave radios using Schottky diodes in 01894. The effect in question was discovered by a German two decades earlier: https://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/semiconductor-... > and of course since 01949 quantum theory has been a field of investigation dominated by non-Western people. As you may be aware, there have been signi…

> The effect in question was discovered by a German two decades earlier

Oh hey, you're right. So Bose only invented the use of the effect for radio, not the Schottky diode itself. I stand corrected.

> ?????? We're not talking about pseudoscience here.

Mercury distillation is not pseudoscience; like glassblowing, it was an existing technology that was a basis for the vacuum-tube age. Of course, if you trace any technology back, you will find that its origins are mixed with pseudoscience; Semmelweis promoted handwashing because he was convinced disease was caused by cadaveric particles, Priestley invented water carbonation because he was convinced scurvy was a carbonated water deficiency, etc. Naturally enough, mercury distillation seems to have been invented by people who were convinced that drinking mercury was good for you. They were wrong about that, but their distillation technology still works.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#609

Post by dnautics » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

smhost wrote: post #599

selimthegrim wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Muslims has America sterilized and brainwashed?

I don't have the numbers on Muslims, but here you go: https://en.mundohispanico.com/the-uterus-collector-sterilize... You've probably already thought of multiple excuses, because you've been conditioned not to think of immigrants in concentration camps as people.

That's because concentration camps refers to your own citizens. Which doesn't excuse what happened in those US facilities. This isnt a trivial distinction; government's have a specific responsibility to their own citizens which goes above and beyond. Besides which china does some super sketch stuff on its border with north Korea.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#610

Post by jhgb » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:28 PM UTC

kragen wrote: post #608

jhgb wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That was invented by Jagadish Chandra Bose in Bangladesh, who built working millimeter-wave radios using Schottky diodes in 01894. The effect in question was discovered by a German two decades earlier: https://www.computerhistory.org/siliconengine/semiconductor-... > and of course since 01949 quantum theory has been a field of investigation dominated by non-Western people. As you may be aware, there have been signi…

> The effect in question was discovered by a German two decades earlier Oh hey, you're right. So Bose only invented the use of the effect for radio, not the Schottky diode itself. I stand corrected. > ?????? We're not talking about pseudoscience here. Mercury distillation is not pseudoscience; like glassblowing, it was an existing technology that was a basis for the vacuum-tube age. Of course, if you trace any techno…

1) Chemistry and physics has nothing to do with the pseudoscience of ayurveda, and vice versa.

2) Even if somehow you could make the connection (which I still strongly doubt since I haven't seen the these Ancient Indian vacuum pumps in museums any more than I've seen a vimana in a museum), it still would be hardly relevant since it would be the same connection as between a car and a screwdriver. A screwdriver can be employed to assemble a car once you know what parts the car should comprise, but you'd most likely describe the resulting car as a thermodynamics-based device, or internal-combustion-heat-engine-based device, and not as a screwdriver-based device. Likewise, a vacuum pump utilizing mercury can be utilized to manufacture a vacuum tube, but most people would probably describe a triode as a electrostatics-based device, or as a thermionic-emission-based device, not as a mercury-vacuum-pump-based device, not matter where the mercury vacuum pump came from.