Climate change will alter where many crops are grown • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#71

Post by martinpw » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #52

unearth3d wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Above 600 increasingly toxic to us us, and above 300 mineral and protein falls off for most plants. Some plants also become > flammable. Have peer papers if interested.

Falls off? Plants are already flammable… It’s already above 400, so most plants no longer have protein or minerals?

> Plants are already flammable…

Admittedly not the most readable construct, but the ">" in the OP's sentence is saying that the plants become more flammable. To the OP, I had not heard that before, would be interested to see those peer reviewed papers if you can share.

> It’s already above 400, so most plants no longer have protein or minerals?

OP said it falls off, not that it goes away completely.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#72

Post by stavros » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:07 AM UTC

sennight wrote: post #67

stavros wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you know, if someone gives you a nice toy and you break it, maybe you don't deserve it.

Who is this "someone" you're talking about, Mother Gaia? Reframing justice from a humancentric perspective to one more in line with the natural state is something that would immediately yield very entertaining results, as the people most likely to propose it would most deeply regret having gotten their way.

It doesn't matter to the point at all who the someone is. Change it to "if you randomly found a nice toy" and the point remains exactly the same.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#73

Post by malka » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:08 AM UTC

yellow_lead wrote: post #2

I couldn't read the whole article, but this has already started with crops more sensitive to climate - namely grapes for wine.

French wine has more and more ethanol in it, due to grapes being more sugary, due to climate change.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#74

Post by refurb » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

PYTHONDJANGO wrote: post #60

LatteLazy wrote: post #48

Im pushing 40 but if i were young I'd become a geneticist. There are fortunes to be made making crops drought/flood/heat/cold/salt resist.

All these crops do not work as you think they should work. Their function in modern agricultural industry is to chain the farmer to buy more and more chemicals and patented crops. "Saving the world with gmo crops" is marketing talk by companies that make big money selling these chemicals and crops. Please check https://www.gmwatch.org/en/ to train your critical thinking.

This is a terrible take on a technology that has drastically improved human health.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#75

Post by sennight » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:17 AM UTC

stavros wrote: post #72

sennight wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is this "someone" you're talking about, Mother Gaia? Reframing justice from a humancentric perspective to one more in line with the natural state is something that would immediately yield very entertaining results, as the people most likely to propose it would most deeply regret having gotten their way.

It doesn't matter to the point at all who the someone is. Change it to "if you randomly found a nice toy" and the point remains exactly the same.

It certainly does matter, it drastically shifts who (or what) determines "you don't deserve it."

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#76

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

malka wrote: post #73

yellow_lead wrote: post #2

I couldn't read the whole article, but this has already started with crops more sensitive to climate - namely grapes for wine.

French wine has more and more ethanol in it, due to grapes being more sugary, due to climate change.

I read that French winemakers are hedging their bets by buying land further north in places like Britain and Scandinavia, but not sure if that's an isolated occurence or a trend.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#77

Post by bobbytit » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

unearth3d wrote: post #37

bobbytit wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article admitted that there has been a worldwide greening effect from increased co2 levels. The vast majority of plants grow bigger and faster when co2 is between 600 and 1500 ppm.

Above 600 increasingly toxic to us us, and above 300 mineral and protein falls off for most plants. Some plants also become > flammable. Have peer papers if interested.

I would love to see those papers. I am sure that any drop off would be insignificant compared to the additional vegetation at higher co2 levels. The people in the Biosphere experiment were living in an environment with co2 over 5000 ppm but it was not good for them. Most unventilated homes are between 700 and 900 ppm. For example, Tomato growers keep co2 levels greater than 1500 ppm in their greenhouses and their tomatoes are very nutricious.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#78

Post by fragbait65 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:31 AM UTC

angelzen wrote: post #16

null_object wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have laughed but my vineyard in Sitka, Alaska will soon be producing world-class Cabs I had this discussion with a previous CEO at a company I worked for here in Sweden a few years ago: he (being a type-A personality, and also loving fast sports cars) was very upbeat about global warming, and saw it as an opportunity to take over the Mediterranean role of growing grapes, olives and other foods that needed a…

Stockholm at 59.33°N is about .5 degree North of Churchill in Northern Manitoba. Without the Gulf Stream your friend may be in for a rude surprise: polar bears rather than grapes and olives. > Churchill is a town in northern Manitoba, Canada, [...] most famous for the many polar bears that move toward the shore from inland in the autumn, leading to the nickname "Polar Bear Capital of the World" that has helped its gr…

I agree, Siberian cold due to changed flows of different currents seems more likely as the end result due to climate change for the Nordics rather than increased temperatures.

Increasing temperatures now does not equal increased temperatures later, when the system has stabilized again.

I'm not saying it will happen, just that it seems more likely with what the current data seems to imply, my current information is from some pop culture article though, so I'm the first one to agree that that information might be wrong.

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#79

Post by nicoffeine » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 11:35 AM UTC

yosito wrote: post #23

Anyone who knows anything about history knows that which crops are grown where changes over time. It has never been static.

What scientists, economists, and historians are concerned about is that the last 10,000 years of climate stability is what has enabled our current civilization.

"In southern Iraq, farmers work much the same land as the Sumerians, the civilization that pioneered irrigated agriculture in about 6000 BCE, and still abide by much of the ancient planting timetable. But as summers become longer and hotter and other seasons shift, many farmers have been left bewildered, angry, and scared.

“The old people have the same mindset as in the past. They feel there’s a continuity because there’s been no development and we have the same tools and same ways of agriculture,” said Jaafar Jotheri, a geoarchaeologist at Iraq’s Al-Qadisiyah University whose father and brother still farm to the south of Baghdad. “Now they’re seeing the climate change, though, and some of the older people don’t know what and when to grow.”

Southern Iraqi farming is rich with millennia-old idioms that no longer hold true. ‘August is for reducing the grapes and producing the dates,’ goes one, but the grapes and dates have started to come at irregular times in recent years. ‘September is the month of moving the buffalo from the water,’ goes another, but Septembers are so hot that water buffalo must be grazed in the marshlands of southern Iraq until later in the year for fear of overheating them."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/climate-c...

Re: Climate change will alter where many crops are grown

#80

Post by Dumblydorr » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:03 PM UTC

keewee7 wrote: post #25

Canada, Russia and China seem to be the big winners of climate change. It will be interesting how that changes geopolitical dynamics.

China, any small gains in crops would be vastly outweighed by coastal devastation. The Chinese population is mostly coastal, with the better part of a billion people on the coast. Sea level rise will be a massive challenge, salt water intrusion to water supplies, flooding is already devastating in China as well. Then you look at Shanghai, second only to Miami in it's potential to be underwater.